I do like the idea of completely removing charges from the mutants and their mutations. Does nothing but bog the poor champs down. I do like the idea of having the mutation abilities tied solely to CD and having them tiered. Ie ability A then ability B etc, which I believe is what you were suggesting. I personally also like the idea of having them share CDs such that if a champ has more than one mutation it would have to make a decision as to which path to go down. The one thing I'd like to see is a bit more thematic cohesion beyond simply they all mutate and there is a doctor (or morph) that can mutate them a little faster. What precisely that would entail, I'm not sure. Maybe some sort of ability on X champ that provides a buff to other champs upon activating a mutation?
I'm a fan of the Mutate ability. I've a Mutant Draksar bg that I've ran with mild success using Channel Violence, Morphs, and Fight in Formation. Channeled Violence being especially helpful. I'm also a fan of the Charge mechanic. Personally I'd like to somehow keep them around. Suggestion if we can't keep them around. Mutate abilities could be passive with different effects. These effects could be applied to champs designed to utilize these abilities. Mutate Dmg: For every 15 dmg this champ does, friendly Mutants in 5 spaces gain 1 dmg. Mutate Def: For every 15 hp this champ loses, friendly Mutants in 5 spaces gain 1 defense. Mutate Ranged: Every other time this unit is hit by a ranged attack, all Mutates in 5 spaces gain a rank of Evasive for 6 turns. Mutate Reflection: When this champion is damaged by a non physical damage source. This champion, and all Mutants in 5 spaces gain that damage type as a basic attack for 3 turns. Mutant Sibling: This champion, and the closest friendly Mutant have Sibling. Mutant Activity: This champion has Lumbering. When this champion moves a space through normal movement, friendly Mutants within 5 spaces gain 1ap. This can trigger up to twice a turn. This champion cannot gain AP outside of normal AP generation. Just some ideas. Or something similar. Alternatively, I've also mentioned reworking the Myx to work like the Zerg. In the sense, that as the drones die, other Myx gain resistances of that dmg type. Pretty sure the a Mutate theme could work within them especially. We've already got summon an swarm themes. Why not tinker with them? I do like their tie in with Sand, but it needs to be a bit more solidified instead of just sprinkled about if they're to continue down that path. Got a bit lost, anyway back on to Mutate. Were you thinking one-off abilities, passive triggers, active decisions? One-Off abilites would be hard to balance. Passive triggers could theoretically be designed around the champ they're applied too. Active selecting, would require multiple choices that players would actually run, and would probably end up being highly debatable with only one optimal build anyway. I'd suggest we go the passive route, and grant them abilities, and stats through triggers.
Why dont we run mutate like the goblin thievery. So you steal --> 5hp, or 1 dmg, or 1 rng, or 1 armour. From champ in 3 places and all mutants in 6 spaces gain that?
I really like those, especially Activity. If i didnt understand wrong sok can make a ton of conditions but just a few of new abilities(those being pasive or active) so we might get more variety if we come up with a couple abilities that use conditions than entire new abilities like the ones you mentioned. The sibling one can work in the examples sok made. (Mutation A: This champ has Evolution: X, if this champ is "Mutated"(has the condition granted from the Doctor) it has Evolution: Kindred(gains Sibling).
Is it possible an activable ability that needs as a condition to trigger to have the "Mutated" condition and then "spend" that condition by removing it? is that toyable on the code? like "Mutant Attack: this champ basic attack deals X% more damage if it has the "Mutated" condition, after this attack is succesfull the "Mutated" condition is removed" or something like this
To me what you were saying here sounded more like more synergy with the mutate ability (from doctor and morph), where being targeted 'activates' an ability: for example 'Mutation Affinity: Calcify' when this champion becomes the target of Mutate, it loses this ability and gains Calcify permanently
Not really, what i want is to not be a one time mutation but change from a kit of abilities to another each time the champ is mutated. So the "Mutate" ability on the doctor and morph and the condition "Mutated" will change and wont behave like it does currently, it would not be perma and might not even grant stats, it would work differently. Sok then sayd that dual role champs would eat design space and if the new abilities are too complex it wont be done for older runes but might be done for new ones, so if we want to upgrade the entire theme we need to simplify them, He also sayd that making "conditions" is easyer than making abilities. You should re-read the entire thread
I haven't read anything but the post I replied to, just an idea I got from what you were saying (even if you weren't saying that at all). Maybe I'll go through this later
Oh, well. The message you quoted was a question for sok because if the mechanic ends up being a ON/OFF kind of thing with the "Mutated" condition being the trigger AND if when it's ON it only means buffs then we should come up with ways to turn that OFF other than target the same champ with mutate again or a timer, so if they have an ability to increase damage or anything spending their "Mutated" condition then that would be cool, like releasing its inner power at the cost of the "Mutation". Example: Champ: Example Mutant Champ #5 Atk: 10 Def: 1 Rng: 1 Spd: 6 HP: 45 -Basic Attack. -Mutation Melee(Example): This champ has Clamp and Damage Shield 3, if it is "Mutated" then it gains "Swoop" and Damage Aura 3. -Unleash genes(or any name): When activated if this champ is "Mutated" it makes a tremor and the "Mutated" condition is removed. Mutation abilities could come with a clause that says "If this champ uses an activable ability it looses the "Mutated" condition and we make that the mutation gives 2 passive abilities and when "Mutated" it grants a passive and an activable one. Like this example: Mutation Range: This champ has Precision and Preparation, if it is "Mutated" it gains Rend 1 and Explosive Attack 3. When this champ activates an ability it looses "Mutated".
I agree. This would make theme exceedingly forward, and boring. They need to be able to somehow continually evolve.
I think that "Constantly" evolve does not mean "stacking abilities", could mean that the buffs and debuffs come and go often so you gotta adapt to the situation.
I'm actually really interested in this after making my first attempt at a Mutation BG last night. I feel like Sea Songing and Processing Collaring your own Champions is a requirement. While reading the thread, I was thinking that, naturalistically, obvious mutations are almost always bad, and whenever a Champion uses a Mutate ability, it only gets better. I'd pitch a, "gain a positive, gain a negative" right now, but I know someone would immediately bite my head off. lol
- Yeah you dont want mutate to be a stale one off....but I think you also dont want it to be this passive "escalation-esque" stall fest. Where the players is hiding waiting for CDs or off somewhere coupling with its mutate partner. - What about making mutate about engaging or attacking enemy champions. The idea being you are using the enemy champion to mutate your dna sort of. Would promote more gameplay then stalling and cd managing imo
I support this. In fact this is part of the basis my for my earlier suggestions. The runes would have to see active combat use, before the stat distributions start happening.
More synergy + SL has generally been a faction that needs time to build up its forces. Defense mutations with CD + small AP cost, however mutations need to fit together with some other theme in SL, otherwise I doubt it will see too much usage unless they become too good to pass up even for split bgs.
Any more spoilers to share before the midterm? I'm also a favorite of Racial mechanics and non-champ runes opening up other runes outside of a theme such as Blessing of Al'mara, Necro Hex, and Vinetouch Pedestal. Although Potions would make a lot of sense to grant temporary race: mutant and possibly those can further mutate a champions race. Draksar Marine and Draksar Berserker were runes I played a lot and always thought they deserved some type of mutant treatment. Also what is the distinction between charges and mutate moving forward? I know charges are a secondary form of AP but are they sticking around or should most abilities with charges be expected to have some type of AP rework? In this case Abilities such as Corrupted Guardians Ancient Corruption and Minotaur Battlemages Empower seem like solid mechanics for future runes, mutant or not.
