Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DiCEM0nEY, Feb 16, 2017.
Restrict this guys posting limits
No offense because im pretty awful, but there is absolutely no legitimate reason to get hit by a bile zombie explosion
Would you like to lay out a well-reasoned argument that breaks down the various components and situations in which Bile Zombie becomes powerful in a way that you believe justifies a change to specifically that rune? I'd really appreciate it.
No way, i like the bile zombie even if i dont think i have never used him.
now that insane deployment zone that covers the entire map, now remove that. make it +1 size for 3 turns or something instead of permanent increase. like how seal: speed works or aid defense.
Yes, bile zombie should be nerfed
Is this for real? If so:
Dont forget the necessary build up.
If you get biled mid font, you have already done something horribly wrong
Nah things that are strong never require any build up. You don't have to do anything with worms you just spam chattering maw and get full field deployment. Cause FW has infinite nora
nerf anything in fw but skeletons thread....i see how it is
I'm curious what worms would look like if only worms were deployable in the expanded deployment zone.
not much different tbh.
It'd stop bile cancer though.
I think very different.
A lot of people get the sense (I think rightly) that worms are incredibly strong, and that bz has something to do with it, but I believe that most people don't have a much more complete understanding than that. So, even though I agree with the general assessment -- more than that, have argued for it for years at this point -- I have extreme skepticism bordering on disdain for the individual suggestions and observations that the community supplies. Don't try surgery when you don't know anatomy.
I don't think that worms are too innately overpowered. DMZ is a huge advantage but you have to make some sacrifices that can lose the game in order to get there. My big issue with worms (and bile ties directly into this issue) is that there is a map-dependent DMZ threshold where you are no longer sacrificing anything to maintain it and DMZ expansion becomes non-interactive.
One of the early versions of the worm racial had a clause where deploying a non-worm shrank the DMZ. I can't recall why that was taken out, but my best guess is that there weren't enough necrosis champs in the game at the time to build a full-worm deck. I think that that clause is worth revisiting: the deck has developed enough that the clause doesn't cripple them and bile zombies need some consequences other than the fact that the worm player is spending nora on the most efficient AoE in the game* rather than champs.
It made worms really terrible. And it wasn't that early, it was one of the middle iterations after Worms were OP for a bit. This is about the 5th iteration of the racial and I don't really think there's a good reason to change it yet again.
(Keep in mind that iteration also had "on death decrease.")
As for Bile, it's been nerfed a few times and it's probably the least efficient it's been in awhile. It's mostly only a problem in combination with Worms, IMO, but perhaps an adjustment of the mechanics are in order as an high damage AOE in combination with Blinded is generally going to be an issue.
Worms bonus is overpowered, bile zombie is sub-par now with the damage nerf.
That "terrible" variation was much better than current one.
Creeps used to be fun mutants with good ST/UD/SL/SP synergy and requirement to actually kill stuff, now they are turned into a retаrded bile/maw spam with free sdz from globes, no decrease from inzone deaths and noncreep deploys, but with terrible main champs and requirement to have lords around.
That's not what people said at the time. Players complained that there was no way to actually grow the DMZ in any meaningful way (keep in mind originally this was before Worm Lord existed, which was created partly to address this issue, so "kill stuff" wasn't even a real option until the Creep Master as ability, as it was originally called back then, was made) and the mechanic was largely a non-element. The way the ability was also meant that every Worm had to have the ability (otherwise it would trigger the decrease).
So you ended up paying X nora per champ for something that never gave you an advantage beyond 1-3 AP most of the time (i.e. worse than Initiative/Reinforcement and Skywings).
Basically, while that iteration was in, there was very little interest in people actually playing Worms, because it really didn't provide an interesting playstyle - you just got some free AP.
That said, I do think the argument that there are now more Worms and theme is more fleshed out there is a potential discussion to be had about what it could be, but I don't really think going back to +1/-1 is going to work because it might as well just be replaced by Reinforcement in that scenario which would be similar in many situations.
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