(NEW) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

Which runes do you think need a nerf?

 

foul rite need to stop being global maybe make it closest 3 champs

 

Polluted Martyr and Dusk Creeper mainly. However Martyr seems a hard champ to nerf without risking putting him in the shoebox. As for dusk creeper he definately needs to lose dead eater if he's going to keep soul collection, he could also probably do with losing Assimilate or Fading Light aswell and gaining something in replacement to not have dusk creeper costing 40 or so nora.

 

Polluted martyr is ok imo and any nerfs woud def shoebox him, ive been running dusk without the dead eater and i would say he can def survive without it.

 

I would rather help Wurmz reach a point where they aren't "easily massacred by most other themes" than shape them around BOTU and/or a CD reduction mechanic. Its restrictive from a design standpoint and forces overlap with other FW themes. As it is, I have never played a game as Wurmz where the CD reduction actually came into effect. As for putrid, a similar case can be made for him eating decaying matter per his acidic characteristics.

 

I appreciate and agree with the majority of the list in the edited OP from 'banchi.
Serkan only gets one logistic though?

I also would like more discussion about that faction bonus. Are we really sure there aren't ANY other options?

I already necro'd the lich thread, not gonna necro the old FW bonus dicussion thread; we can just talk about it here.

I personally feel 4 + reveals FF and 2 + reveals SF isn't beneficial in any way.
And I understand other faction bonuses will change as well, and quite frankly, as long as we keep -60% CD on undeads, I'm happy.
Nevertheless, I feel that having ^ that as our new faction bonus will be supremely-under-powered, even if all the other bonuses change. Exactly how under-powered it would be would depend on those other faction bonus changes, but I feel it would be under-powered all the same.

And yes- I understand, you'll have a slightly easier early game which is helpful for FW. I just don't think it's enough to dictate an entire factions bonus. Otherwise, there's no real benefit to actually play FF FW aside from that extra 2 reveals, which you can make up for by scrying, which WE can make up for through ToH.
You have to alter the bonus into something else that isn't as powerful as current bonus but isn't completely useless either.
There should be a tangible benefit (other than +2 reveals on ONE TURN) for a FF bonus, or everyone's gonna run splits.

 

@TeaScholar Thank you for reanimating the lich thread. I will take a look and refresh my mind after I return home and modify Serkan some more (I like the logistic route of turning him into a badass as you deploy more).

As for the faction bonus suggestion I am more then willing to discuss it.
Assume for the most part that only slight changes to bonuses will occur as I can not garuntee they will change as it is based purely on how convincing the argument sounds To Gedden.

This patch I'm basically putting in a Faction bonus change request for FW along with reasoning.
If he doesn't like it then the other rune changes are basically a plan B if he isn't convinced.

In any case let us discuss!

 

Kinda off topic, just saw crawling corpse has lumbering (which is obvious) and curse, my suggestion would be to remove the curse and add exertion to give him some extra mobility? Would make sense like he is crawling through his agony

 

A lateral change could be possible for Polluted Martyr… For example putting a sandbag on base like Propogate carrionling would make him harder to deploy effectively. Basically a larger tempo hit like it was originally.

 

It's quite difficult for me to go into changing martyr, no matter how much he needs the nerf, I can't think of how to keep him out of the shoebox other than getting rid of the whole soulsift thing and simply making him a cheaper champ. Reinforce instead of initiative would also seem fair but I'm not sure how that works out in cost.

In terms of the bonus, I've been thinking on it for a while. There are a couple ideas that developed that are slightly better than +4 cooldown but not supurbly OP.

#1- Exertion Bonus:
Champions deployed get exertion for one turn.
This idea is voided if exertion 1/2/3 all give 3 ap as yobanchi posted

#2- Death Bonus:
Death Harvester's effect, but as a faction bonus, and should be stackable with D. Harvester's effect.
FF should be tangibly more death-on-nora return compared to SF to encourage FF play.

#3- Redeployment Bonus: (personal favorite)
After a champion dies, the next time you deploy that champion, it is 5 nora cheaper (6 nora if champion is +80 nora)
SF could be 2 nora cheaper (3 nora if champ is +80 nora) upon redeployment
Depending on how OP anyone finds this to be, we might get away with it stacking....
So if you deploy afflicted corpse at 38 nora, he dies, comes off CD, you deploy him again, he's 33 nora, and then by his third deploy, he's 28 nora. If this is too OP, we could cap it at -5 nora cost. So that way, each redeployment doesn't stack the reduction, and stays at -5 cost reduction, and the afflicted corpse would go to 33 nora cost and stay there.
@Ragic Do you find this ^ to be too OP?

#4- Interlinked BG Bonus:
Every __ (#) of champs you deploy, the next spell/relic you deploy is free
or
Every __(#) of champs you deploy, the next spell/relic deployed is cost-reduced

#5- Death-Wish Bonus:
All FW champs (undead or not) have a death-wish. They enter the battlefield with intentions of killing, and dying. Just death abroad.
Death Wish: When this champion kills an enemy unit, they gain Motivate, replacing Death Wish. When this champion dies, friendly champions get -1 defense ( for 4 turns) and +1 speed ( for 2 turns) if the unit still had Death Wish.

@yobanchi I particularly want your input on Death Wish, and Redeployment

 

@TeaScholar Thank you for your thoughts...

Redeployment-
Assuming that the average game is roughly 15 rounds or less then 30min lets take a look at some hypothetical numbers.

65-74 nora champ with a cool down of 5 will run the risk of death at round 4 leaving it to be deployed later at round 9 and then again at round 14.
This saves you a total of 15 nora (-5 for second deploy -10 for third). From this perspective mid to high casting cost champs will be garnering you very little.
65+ nora champs make up about 75% of the faction (very roughly).

So for 75% of the faction this is actually underpowered even with the increase in nora 'savings'.

So the other 25% of champs are around the 2/3/4 cool down range.

Let's take the other end of the spectrum 25-39: 2 cool down unit. with it dieing on round 4 it can be deployed again at 6, 8, 10, 12, 14... so a total of 5 times. Roughly that since as it gets reduced it effects the cool down into lower territory and after the 3rd deploy it goes into the 1 cool down and spiraling into close to free champions when combined with nora gen available in the faction.

This change would result in the majority of bgs consisting of champs under 65 nora and becoming even more spammy then cheap meat is now but more boring as you need to deploy the same champ in order to get the discount.

Too much room for abuse and changes the cost of champs too dramatically on one side and not noticeable enough on the other.

Death Wish-
From what I'm reading it's kinda unnecessarily complex for the impact it gives which is a worse UD bonus. Broken bones would probably be integral to making this work but otherwise I see it as far less powerful then + rune reveals.

Rune Reveals-
With the 20 rune dock days it was entirely possible to lock out enemy bgs by killing all their champs giving the FW player a golden timeframe where they could quickly overrun the board before the enemy cool down threshold was reached.

With 30 rune docks that basically gave all factions the FW bonus in that they could just run 2x of everything and never run out of champs to deploy even in long games.
Technically this left FW with the ability in theory to run fewer champs in order to run more spells/answers. Unfortunately with 30 runes and lower champ numbers you essentially handicap yourself into 'champ screw' which is similar to mana screw in MTG in that you don't draw any or don't draw good starting champs that you can deploy to secure and keep your early fonts.

With rune reveals + the cool down bonus this essentially makes that play style doable. You can choose to run fewer critters or gain the benefit of a very consistent early game draws which are very powerful from a statistical point of view and not necessarily an outright in game number.

+4 runes at the start is huge... close to 9 (10 with scry) is 1/3 of your bg when going 2nd.

 

Updated Serkan:

Serkan:
Path 1: Teleport 1, 2, 3 - movement upgrades
Path 2: Drain 2, SpellSurge: Serkan's Touch, Logistics: Life Siphon - Heal Upgrades
Base- Attack Electricity, Boon, Hero, Defensive Strike, Overkill, Final Word
Cost range ( 90 - 100 isn nora)

- Serkan's Touch to 40 nora.

 

I prefer the other serkan with logistics on 1 path and a debuffs on the other this version make him seem like he having too much abilities that will sandbag

 

Well-said in regards to the bonus.

Overkill is an ability I was never really a fan of. And if we worked around it he would look like Corruptor.

 

Thoughts on Spellsurge: Serkan's touch if the spell went down to 40 nora? I was thinking it could be a tradeoff in that he doesn't have the Dbuffs base anymore since he could rely on the spell. If it seems like a waste I'll scrap that Idea and have him go back to a more dBuff centric build.

@TeaScholar let me try to address your questions concerning some of the costing on this (roughly) by basing it off of poxbase.com

1) Logistics Serkan from other thread
Path 1 ( Defensive Strike (10nora), Frightful Aura 3 (4nora), Desecration zone 2 (2n0ra))
Path 2 ( Portal(4nora), Teleport 1 (5 nora), Weary(3 nora))
Base: Attack:Electricity, Hero, Boon of the undead, Logistics life siphon (4nora), Logistics: Spd (5Nora), Logistics: Range(8nora), Logistics: Flanking (5nora)
Stats: Dmg 10, Spd 6, Rng 4-5

Rough Nora range ( 89 - 99 )
Reducing his range throws a little unknown into the mix as I can't quite calculate the cost savings so this isn't exact.

 

wow thats a lot of abilities are you sure it only 99 max seems like its more
logistic flanking not that good

 

I like your suggestion for Serkan, I feel like he may be overdoing it with abilities however. Like, does he really need final word?

 

Max ability number is 8 so 6 base...usually you want to keep to 3 base abilities for an average of 5 total but that's a little hard when the faction has boon so normally the average ability set for FW is 4 base.

I can trim them up a little more to relieve the bloat.

 

@chickenpox2 Logistics flanking is 5 nora. The logistics build may be able to get away with 8 abilities total since they go away after they trigger meaning he's not too complicated stat wise.

I'll put a few options above in the OP

 

What about non-witch humans?
Dark apprentice and lich servitor are support for liches which themselves are suppose to shift into more of a support role.
Deathcaster and corruptor are pretty decent and viable.
Elsari reaper and fallen hero are two underperforming knights who could use a tweak or two.