No seriously, NKD is silly - 8 nora

hahaha, how the Firk does Homicidal thug counter or even remotely deal with NKD?

 

By being about 14 nora overcosted and worthless.

 

Probably because nobody feels like running a mediocre spell these days. Spell slots in SL are pretty tight. Transfusion is only worth running if you've got a champset that can make full use of it. AoV died and swarm champs haven't been relevant in forever.

Again, if I have to run a mediocre rune for every dumb mechanic out there, I'm going to be stuck with a bunch of runes in my bg that are next to useless when I don't get that matchup. Also, the thought that transfusion justifies NKD at 8 nora is stupid. Something that is incredibly strong but is allowed to remain intact because there's a counter out there is bad design. Include the counter or suffer. Draw the counter or suffer. Better include several counters or suffer.

SL is by far the faction that has the least flexibility and the most trouble dealing with non-standard play. While FW would arguable be the strongest. Put yourself in the shoes of a player of a faction that outputs, by a large margin, most of it's damage by basic attacks.

 

How is this just Borderline Acceptable?

For 73 nora u get a spd 7 champion with rank 3 Leap and NKD.

It can move 8 spaces in a single turn while having Leap!

 

Rework and bomb nerfs both made sure work that none of them are still standing. I guess you can run Vindrax if you're really into him. Maybe.

 

What I got from this thread is:
Buff Jakei Warfoot.
Kthxbyeafk

 

I think AOEs have very few specific counters to them, what I can get is Combat Awareness.

So that might be the main reason they got nerfed especially when some of them can hit form range 7?

 

@BurnPyro

Because it's so important to you, what if I started playing FF SL, exclusively, on this account until I reached and maintained top 10 limited for a week or more (I wouldn't sit on my rank once achieved). I'd use some of the options you've decided are terrible and periodically discuss my findings. I'm curious to see whether or not you're capable of changing your opinion, and what better way then to turn your insults into a challenge?

It's abundantly clear that we'll never be able to have a serious discussion so long as you cling to your narrow view. I'm willing to compromise, here. Are you?

 

I don't know about how burn feels about it, but I'd love to see you try

 

Except that both rank and bg/runes used do not prove anything. Rank isn't stable enough to prove a point and you can run whatever and beat anyone because there are so many factors other than rune power. This doesn't mean that one should be content to not run the best runes.

I honestly don't see a compromise. I have got 15+k SL DoW points. I talk to a lot of people, people smarted and better at understanding the game then me. None of your underrrated runes have ever come up or been played in a serious environment. Just because I can beat people with Imperator, doesn't mean that rune isn't the worst you've ever seen.

I stand by my points. The majority of counters you listed are garbage. Judging by other responses and likes to said responses, I am not the only one to feel this way.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting.

 

Their playstyle is fundamentally different from FF SL. They play around a few big guys, so transfusion actually makes sense.

 

loloawluoual, deploy lots of kanen, cast quicken or DB, deploy lots of draksar, cast quicken or DB, deploy lots of skyluze, cast quicken or DB, deploy lots of bugs, cast quicken or DB, I don't see a dif.

 

Deploy maulers, cast quicken and DB.

It's different.

 

SL has not much to complain about. Don't you run double Snog Burn? Pfft, amateur. You need to go buy your winz.

On a realistic note: I find the whole "but it is awesome in 1v1" rather poor. I mean, remember the Defiler Knight? Dude had frightful blows AND ghostly visage. Could CC one dude and frighten another into death. Yet he more or less sucked.

The only time great 1v1 skills become an issue is when these great 1v1 abilities are combined with great "slip into the enemy font" abilities. That IS an issue with the Shadowstalker. On mid fonts he is not a big issue IMO, unless its vs a range unit, but then that is fairly common (pin) and balances range out somewhat. He will probably stay stealthed as if he jumps over to attack he will only block 1 hit afterwards. Then get smacked back. Maybe a small edge, but manageable IMO.

The issue with him comes when he remains stealthed and nips behind you to your font. Now you need to send someone forward to maintain the mid font contesting while keeping someone on your font to try and find him. This puts you in a situation where you are forced to act (so might not have the right champ for the job ready to vs him) and thins out your forces further furstraining your abilities to counter his NKD.

At this point he does not actually need to attack, as he is costing you 12 nora a turn (btw, maybe font and shrine nora should be reduced to what they were pre-CorpsE, just a thought. In a similar vein, nora gen could be reduced as well (miner used to be 2,4,6)). This benefit is magnified by his low cost.

This is not an issue with other NKD champs (as seen when people try to grasp at straws of why the other NKD guys are also good. They are no where close). Best they can do is hold you up on a mid font, and there are already lots of ways to do that (big tanky ass Kricken Wing, for example).

This leads me to think NKD is, currently, not a major issue but rather (predictably IMO) the issue is synergistic abilities whose combined effect is undercosted.

With that said, I do agree that NKD is not very fun. It creates a "sit and do nothing" play style on both sides. Maybe turning it into something like Horrific Aura (activated, hidden, 1 round, all hits miss AND are countered) could be an easy way forward, though I think if that happened it should lose some of its counters (as a low CD would probably be too much).

 

As I said, they rely on the big guys to proc the racial. Transfusion actually matters because that one attack results in a lot of other attacks.

And for the record, again, all SL does to win games it basic attack. Do it all game long and pray you come out on top. NKD is the perfect counter.

 

Oh and, deploying a 90 nora champ in SL is supposed to be my way to deal with it? Give me more.

 

90 nora champ with a global 5 dmg and an instant effect that not only denies the opponent his defensive mechanic but also denies a lot of offensive ones as well? Yes. If the opponent has left a NKD unit in a spot where it can be one rounded but for its stealth or NKD abilities, Snog gets you the kill.

Now, I know its not the be all and end all vs the Shadowstalker, as his manoeuvrability can get him into annoying spots where he is hard to one turn, but as for your general point (the basis of this thread) on NKD, yes, Snog is an awesome answer that other factions wish they had and you cannot pretend otherwise.

 

Cept when that global is countered by their global.

 

If you mean cleansing storm, then it is lucky that you attack of your turn and they cleanse the turn after.

 

No. I don't mean cleansing storm.