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Double post?

 

@Fikule all the ritual abilities are tied together in cool down so choosing one on each path brings with it the same issues as choosing two different paths for Stitched First. However if you think that this isn't much of an issue let me know how she was before and I'll revert it if you think it was perfect ^_^.

Witches hourglass is a good candidate! I'll replace it with Apprentice's spot.
Ideas for this relic? Spitballing...

1) Witches Hourglass - noraback version
Sands of Time.
Units with Elsari Coven have Essence Capture.

2) Witches Hourglass - timeline version
Sands of Time.
All Units with elsari Coven have Doom.

3)Witches hourglass - tank version
Sands of time.
All witches within 6 spaces have foe: Cursed.

 

I love option 3

 

I had not considered the shared cooldown. So that makes more sense now.

Upgrade Path #2 is still geared fully to summons making the other Path #1 options less appealing.

Devour Skeleton is not great for her. It is only two nora less than the Rituals, doesn't match cooldowns with the summon and only heals her for a fixed amount of 10, she would take less damage by simply not sacrificing the skeleton and pawning the damage to it.

Maybe:
2) Forsaken Follower-
Path 2 (Summon Skeleton 1, Afflict 2, Elsari Coven)
Path 2 (Drain 1, Ritual of Destruction, Ritual of Power)
Base: Attack Magical, Pawn, Defenseless

Reasoning:
These form a cheaper, non-summon option for her. She deals damage as normal, afflicting a target as punishment for any retaliation. Drain 1 lets her heal without killing the skeleton in most cases, allowing her to both heal from it and pawn it.

Also, while I was thinking of this, I also thought "man, Afflict would be a great ability to have a curse benefit attached". It matches their magic style and rank 1 of afflict is currently "meh". A curse benefit on the ranks would make it pretty witchy.


I like versions of the Hourglass that give more purpose to Elsari Coven.

Essence Capture is already a theme ability for the crocs.
I get the impression that Doom would either be useless or way too useful without an inbetween (i.e. unused or nerfbait). Foe would of course, be too powerful as a global

Witches Hourglass - Wear them down version
Sands of time.
While there are 3 or more units with Elsari Coven in play, those units gain Cripple & Weary.

Reasoning:
The effects do not stack, but it allows them to be prolific within the battlegroup. They combo well with Cackle, Hex and Curse too. The requirement of three witches offers counterplay for the enemy if you aren't investing enough units with Coven.

 

I vote for option 3.

Version 1 is borderline OP, given how strong essence capture is.

Version 2 will cause a riot. Remember when all the doomballs gained doom? Yeah, pretty much that, but being limited to only FW champions, it would be worse.

 

Is amazing how we have to auto-censored (i actually dont know the word sorry for me english) us, is like, OH I HAVE AN IDEA, but im afraid people would find us OP, is like we are scared to get powerfoul.

 

Yeah, we've pretty much become the Pox whipping boys over the years, and the 'scared dog syndrome' that people seem to develop over it tends to wear a bit thin.

 

If you ask me i would rather all elsari coven units have doom 2, if yobanchi is the one that gave the idea, why not.

 

Huh, another option could be giving all witches within 8 spaces forsaken exploit. That would make this the offensive coin to Witching hours defensive.

 

Whatever it ends up being, I would personally prefer it to make coven more useful. And it seems flavourful in a way to make coven have uses outside of the ability itself.

Anyone can be a witch. But there are perks to being a member of the coven.

 

actually there is a small perk to having multiple covens.

The ability is a little misleading but it works this way:

When an enemy champion comes into play it becomes cursed for two turns including another two turns for every witch you have in play.
When an enemy enters a dead magic zone you control it becomes cursed for two turns including another two turns for every unit with coven in play.

This is either a bug or intended.

In either case I think that the relic would be fine working on all witches and handicapping it to coven only may be shooting ourselves in the foot for the sake of a little coven incentive.

Foe: Cursed and Forsaken Exploit are both expensive abilities so I could see it. I'll put it down as two options as I'm not sure which I like more.

 

Mm, but the advantage of using Coven means it can also be a more powerful ability (while still being global, so you don't risk the hourglass).

 

No. Please. This is a buff to a already extremely powerful spell (refund could drop it to 20 nora, and -1 cd is very relevant). Just add Short Lived and don't drop the price, or drop price and add Short Lived 1 (even then, dropping the price scares me).

 

fyi, summoned units don't drop a globe, so that part of short lived won't affect it.

 

This. The price can always be bumped up again if it proves too much. Personally, I'd say SL 1 and 35, adjust accordingly (2 is an extra tick of aura, but I'm willing to lowball a little bit for sake of balance)

 

I say 35 ans SL 2 is balanced, the refund for each spirit is not working.

 

-1 cd is a big deal on a spell that is SPAMMED. To hell.

That's all I was saying, I know it wont drop a globe, and I do think that is a decent fix, it's just the -1 cd that scares me.

 

I knew there was something wrong! On deploy only happens once (unless we face stuff like blink), while entering into DMZ happens more often, hence the later is more noticeable and few to nobody noticed the change to elsari coven.

I would have to chalk it up as bug. I think if they were intending to have two different conditionals to proc the ability, they would have updated the text to tell that, rather than ignore it and only change it to "for every witch". And honestly, given how badly the theme was doing with the "for every coven unit", I don't understand either, why they would want to complicate the theme or gimp the functionality by designing it like that, specially because, as pointed earlier, on deploy happens way less often than walking onto DMZ.

Also, and tying it to the witches hourglass, I think an important aspect to keep in consideration is the need to keep the functionality relatively simple. Adding multiple conditionals within the same theme is similar to what happened to those weird name abilities on ST (khas something and khas some that), as having different effects based on different conditions was too complicated and dropped. In fact, the whole ferren focus was dropped because that same reason: it was too complicated. Having some abilities working based on the class witch, and then some others based on the ability coven seems to be random and unnecessary. Witching hour works on class witch and there have never been complains about that (the nerf was aimed at the abilities granted, hence vaporize became RiM), so why to change that now?

And similarly, why to change the hourglass to work on a different condition than witching hour or how should elsari coven is described on text? It adds an unnecessary layer of complexity, and it brings a pretty big problem that was quite evident when that developer was around: if you have to put an ability so strong to require really powerful drawbacks to keep it in check, then is a bad design. Flurry anyone? Asking to the players to pick an upgrade they would not pick otherwise, and then pick a relic that does nothing on its own, and then placing both in the field in order to obtain a reward leads to a huge swing, as the reward is too weak to not worth the effort (anyone remembers the old vigilance on Dugon?), or so strong they get nerf called. Plenty of conditional runes face a similar problem (when was the last time you saw Xulos' statue or bracelet of mirrors?) and they aren't asking for a specific build or a particularly weak bg design.

TL,DR: the described elsari coven function seems to be a bug. It should be change to "for every witch" in all instances if nothing because simplicity on the design and keep it in line with how witching hour works. And a similar principle should guide the buff to witches hourglass, that is, it should affect witches so it have an immediate noticeable effect and doesn't require to be a major power boost to be worth the effort.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Just seems like excuses for people to complain about FW.
You also act as if it's the only spell spammed in the game too. Only way it is spammed is if you square off against a bona-fide spell spammer. The best players in the game don't spam spells. There is a balance.

 

No.