Patch Preview: Boost/Commander/Defender

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    When I first re-aligned these abilities, 2 things happened:
    1. The total number of stats that these abilities got reduced (even if you had all of them)
    2. Specific themes had access to specific ones (typically 2)
    However, it continues to be that people complain about the stacking of these abilities, so with the next patch, Boost's nora cost has been adjusted and most themes will end up with access to only one of these abilities. This should also hope to better define each theme's flavor within the context of these abilities (i.e. "defensive" themes will get Defender).
    JellyBerry, Qucas, aseryen and 3 others like this.
  2. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Hmm, I understand people not being happy with these abilities being spread about, but it did open up themes that would never have been possible before.

    Have to see how the dust settles.
  3. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Good move.
    In fact, excellent one.
    Just make sure you give Dorfs the Defender one and Im happy.
  4. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, I do think some players put too much stock into specific abilities just because they are more easily visible (like stat buffs) and don't see the effects of other abilities as readily, so that harp on ones that increase stats (or just result in big numbers) more than other abilities.

    Fundamentally, what will happen is those themes will simply get or pick a different ability that gives a different type of benefit. For example, say Jellebrium Mender loses Defender, well, now you will just play against Shroud instead.
    TeaNinja, Qucas and aseryen like this.
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Once this goes into effect, OLD Boost vs NEW Boost will functionally have reduced it from +3 DMG, +6 HP and +1 DEF to +5 HP, while Commander and Improve Damage (for a total of +3 DMG and +5 HP) is now just Commander at +2 DMG, etc.

    (This is comparing to pre-revamp versions.)
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  6. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    This is a huge change and i think pox as a game would benefit from this
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  7. kagebunshn

    kagebunshn I need me some PIE!

    I don't think I like this change at all.

    Lowering the total stat bonuses was a great idea, as was opening the abilities up to race+class. But going back to 'here is your 1 choice' seems like a bad call.

    Maybe I am slightly biased because I only play KF, and nearly all of kf themes rely heavily on having to add stats to the -weak- base stats. EG...fairies, vashal, elves, wizards, rangers, archers
    SireofSuns likes this.
  8. kagebunshn

    kagebunshn I need me some PIE!

    If creatures getting a +2 to damage or a +5 to hitpoints is actually a problem, then there are a ton of other abilities that are much worse by comparison.

    For example, free/cheap/summoned meat.
  9. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Then you should change your gameplay style to fit those KF themes you mentioned: harrassing fonts, outnumbering the oponent and simply being a pain in the ****.
    If you want to go toe to toe on a long fight against stat monsters you will most likely loose with the bgs you mentioned.
    So it's more about finding the right bg for you rather than bashing the good change.
    SPiEkY and Kampel like this.
  10. ChiaoLung

    ChiaoLung I need me some PIE!

    It's a good change for the game overall. It's a really bad change specifically for KF. To give an example - trees really relied on stacking buffs. There were too many and it was rightly nerfed. Now trees aren't competitive (although De'lim still is.) This change is likely to do the same things for fae and elves as it did for trees unless that's taken into consideration. The only two themes in KF right now that don't rely on stat stacking are garu and de'lim, although it has a different way of stacking - there are a couple others that aren't as reliant on it. None of these are top tier. Stat stacking pretty much became KF's most viable strategy after speed and ranged both were toned down. Fairies will probably still be competitive. I don't know about elves including archers and wizards.
  11. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Per usual, you KF players tend to overestimate everything so you guys can get "compensated". It has been this way since I have joined (08), its the funniest thing on these forums.
    You gave ZERO reasons why stat stacking is "KF's most viable strategy after speed and ranged both were toned down". I mean, KF bonus with +1SPD hasnt changed. Sure, range has been nerfed, but for all factions.
    What you guys need to do is to adapt to the way KF is being currently developed. With cheap, small fast champions, not simply 8SPDers with 13AP hitting you for 20DMG from 8 tiles away.
    If you guys dont like that playstile, change the faction. But trying to create some drama due to this change is laughable.
  12. ChiaoLung

    ChiaoLung I need me some PIE!

    Look over the changes made to KF over the last year. Speed has either gone down or costs have gone up. HP pretty much hasn't changed. They're not cheap, fast champions anymore. Also the ap storage change effectively makes KF champs slower than it was. As far as other factions, I do play other factions. They've been tapped in other ways. If you feel I'm wrong make a few KF bg's and play them. As far as stat stacking being the most viable strategy for KF right now, have a look at the KF forums. Look at the builds being made. Ask yourself why they're made that way.

    tl;dr - Sit down and play the game or go away. I've pretty much lost patience with you and your raging.
  13. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Will hurt fae a bit I guess, but they mostly relied on other means to boost stats. Elves and vashals seems like it'll hurt more.

    But, like I said, gonna wait till the dust settles before I make an overall judgement.
  14. kagebunshn

    kagebunshn I need me some PIE!

    it will largely depend on whether or not the -extremely- limited pool of champs with the abilities are good in their own right.

    In KF, honor coin gives spot commander...sounds great. In practice, it only works well on about 3 champs.

    Then there is still the issue of all those 'other' abilities that give global buffs that are probably even more problematic. They just become even more powerful and mandatory as boost/commander becomes less available. Battle Leader, War Cry, battle hymn, herders, battle drums, etc.
  15. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Based on the wording of Sok's post, Fae will more or less be unaffected as they only have 3 in-theme boost abilities (boost on conclave wardens, weaken spells on fae oracles, Chains of Amareth) and these - as far as I understand the post - will be kept within their themes seeing how Fairies don't have any other in-theme champion with any of those.

    Also I believe these changes are aimed at champions with those abilities, not everything that provides them. Stay calm.
    Tweek516 likes this.
  16. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    I have news for you pede, the game is not made for the top 10 players, the game is made for its "general player population" and currently you are not top 10, not even high rank or mid or low, you are not even a player so please dont be a c*** to other ppl.
  17. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    The last time I'd seen Zorbot in game he was playing Meta/GoodStuff KF BG and complaining that KF is weak because he wasn't doing that well. He didn't try to go for any theme or anything when suggested to do so, but outright said that they're all bad/weak.

    Meanwhile we have people - and I'm oversimplifying this to keep it short - saying Magic Amp in KF is OP and that Fairies are a sleeper. Whom to trust? A single player, who did not put any effort in overcoming his perception of a weak faction by trying its different aspects or the group who claims this and that are at the very least strong?

    Not trying to attack you, merely attempting to discuss despite your pretentious tone.

    Oh, something for the future: "Loose" in English is used mostly as an adjective and means that something isn't applied tight enough, e.g. a screw can be loose or a nail in a plank. There's also a term in English that someone has a few screws loose to imply they're crazy. "To lose" is the word you're looking for.
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Note that this really only impacts Boost/Commander/Defender (and not, for example, Chained Fae), and most themes already only have access to 1, so it's not as big a change as people might think.

    Some themes have access to 2 or more (such as Jellies), and those will be reduced to 1 (but the champions will have either cost less, or be able to select a different upgrade so it's not as though the champs just lose an ability and costs the same).

    Some themes will have the one they have access to changed to a different one.
    Kampel, Tweek516, Etherielin and 2 others like this.
  19. JellyBerry

    JellyBerry Forum Royalty

    I mean, I'm no Zorbot or Nidhogg, and whilst I generally agree that what is being done in regards to boosting abilities is best for Pox, they are somewhat correct in their concerns regarding KF.

    Given the changes the faction went through (both direct and indirect) they no longer excel at what they used to, and ironically, phalanx seems to be the most viable (currently) way to measure up to today's standards. Then again, since the boosting abilities change is across all the factions, it might grant KF some space to choose different strategies, so the general impact has yet to be seen, but overall, Pox has evolved in way in which pondering on how you will be reaching or closing the gap on the KF playing opponent is no longer the biggest concern (you may also thank map design for this). That's not to say the faction is terrible or that they lack a particular set of tools, but to me it seems that most of the recent synergies that have been implemented for the faction seem stat based (I might be wrong but it's solely based on the observation of that which is being played), which in turn, validates their concern.

    I'm pretty sure the ones expressing said concern are reasonable people that would not 'demand' anything as well, so no need to give up on your patience when you address them.

    Overall though, separating decks from raw stat stacking seems good (in my opinion), especially because it opens up a design space where you can achieve a competitive state through variety, which is something I'm keen on. Additionally, they will stop being the go to suggestion whenever people think a theme/deck is bad.
    Cinder405, davre, Pedeguerra and 2 others like this.
  20. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Vashal cries every time

    But I beliee in you.

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