Patch Preview: Pounce/Swoop/Massive Leap consolidation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Considering I have said it multiple times, including in the first post of this thread, and in a post you previously quoted...
     
  2. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    Ya Stone Colossus should get Colossal
     
  3. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Should I not?
    How many units have Commander on the name? I dont see that as an issue, I actually put high expectations when flavos ia concerned (thats why I dislike ferrets and corgis on this game)
     
  4. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    6, 2 of which are reskins
     
  5. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    corgi commander sounds like a pretty badass rune concept.
     
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I think wanting X name units to have X name ability shows a lack of understanding of design and balance.

    Names are flavorful, not wholly prescriptive. That means they provide CONTEXT for the champion, but do not necessarily outline what the champion must have. There are many names for a "leader" type champion such as General, Lord, or Commander, and all of these have their own specific flavor and lore reasons.

    Now, if a unit with Commander, or General, has kits that do not give them some IDEA of being a leader, then yea, that's not flavorful - why is he even called that if he doesn't lead people?

    But restricting the use of names to SPECIFIC ability name matches is problematic, as a champion who is a Commander from a lore perspective should be called a Commander irrespective of whether an ability named Commander even exists.

    In the specific case of Commander, it'd mean that some themes that we might not want to have ability Commander would end up having it, or we have to rename champions for balance purposes, which is a bit silly.

    ~

    Basically, it's reasonable to want names and ability kits to match thematically. And I wholly agree that if champion name/art doesn't match what they do, it's not flavorful.

    But I think going for NAME matching is going too far, and you end up in situations like Boghopper Elite should have Elite and Skeezick Bolter should have Bolt.

    In general, it's going to work out on its own anyway, because most of the time the abilities that fit a champion based on their name/art is going to have similar names. Making special effort or rules to enforce this kind of thing doesn't really make sense (especially since sometimes new abilities made later will have a name that matches an old rune's name).

    Basically what I am against is having a rule that says "If a champion's name contains the name of an ability, the champion should have the ability" simply goes too far and I'd argue ends up hurting flavor instead of enhancing it. Because instead of the role of a unit being informed by its art and name and being interpreted by the player, it's enforced by some rule that says to match names.

    ~

    As for Ferrets/Corgis, as I have said before, I find it weird you have such a problem with them when Pox as a game (and fantasy games in general) have long used all kinds of weird (and not so weird) creatures. Maybe your problem is that Ferrets aren't part of "standard" fantasy, but then it's not as though Pox is fully standard anyway. It's a fantasy game - fantastical creatures are part and parcel of the genre. This game has ratless hairmen, talking bipedal rhinos, catgirls, frogmen, crocodile mages, goblins... the list goes on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
    Gnomes likes this.
  7. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    1)Im not wanting anything. I just said that for Commander, I would like if it had the respective ability. But yeah, I dont care for lacking understanding of design, and we both lack understanding of balance so its all good. Good thing you have that council of noob of yours.

    2) "In general its going to work out" was all I needed to hear. Good night!
     
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Also, I think MtG is one of those games that does a great of what I am illustrating - where they use the names, and the card text/abilities, to really tell you a story about the card and the characters, without letting the name completely decide what happens. Now, this is partly because they don't have as many keywords/abilities as Pox does, but at the same time it's also a deliberate choice - for example, not everything with the word Shadow in its name has the keyword Shadow and yet you can't accuse of MtG as not being flavorful.
     
  9. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    Sokopede 2014-2016 </3
     
  10. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    It'd help your points a ton if you'd at least refrain from insulting people's ability to play this game, otherwise you end up sounding like a certain super fellow who everyone keeps having a laugh about.
     
  11. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I'd agree with this.

    I can agree that it shouldn't be a hard rule, but... the thing's gigantic in the rune art, his flavour text is all about it being the biggest and it has colossus in the name - not just in the name, it is the name.
     
    Tweek516 likes this.
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    What is Colossal? :)
     
    Lushiris and yobanchi like this.
  13. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    oh right, it's hunter: small now.
     
  14. Cinder405

    Cinder405 I need me some PIE!

    Can "K'thun the Ancient" finally lose "Wandering" since "Lore" and especially "Names" only give context on what their designs may be?

    K'thun Rune Text
    "K'thun is renown for his endless wisdom, his wandering mind and mindless wandering." - Sipn, Elven Bard
     
  15. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    1) Buddy, I started this conversation not insulting anyone, nor I think I have up until this point;
    2) I couldnt care less if people are having a laugh about me on these forums. Most of the guys who point and laugh around here are the ones who suffer from that in real life, so its fine by me they have this place as a refugee. Just dont expect me to stop saying the things I want to say and I feel are bad for the game.
    Have a good one.
     
  16. ChiaoLung

    ChiaoLung I need me some PIE!

    It's true you've been much better about not insulting anyone...now you're just insulting everything in general about the game. It's not any better. Sure, you're providing criticism, but in order for that to be beneficial or worth listening to it needs to be constructive and not just complaining. You have in the past had a lot of good input. You were starting to again. Now you're heading down the same path you spent a week apologizing for.
     
    Etherielin and SPiEkY like this.
  17. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I appreciate the advice man, but Im not going down the same path, at all.
    There are two things I just recently found out that Im strongly against: KB change and this Pounce change. Thats it.
    And if Im strong with my opinions without hurting anybodys feelings, whats the problem with that?
    I cant really debate too much with Sok because I dont have as much time as him to make lengthy posts with my opinion, because I dont work for Pox. So, I try to be as objective and succinct as I can, and sometimes I cant even reply. Doesnt mean I shouldnt say something.
    Again, I appreciate the advice, but I dont think Im going down the same path nor I need to apologize for being against the changes being implemented.
     
  18. ChiaoLung

    ChiaoLung I need me some PIE!

    KB change doesn't change much other than remove some instant kills...and it's still going to be an instant kill for the most part, just from damage rather than being knocked over a cliff. Pounce change is definitely going to be a change, but I'm not seeing where it's that big of a deal. I don't care much for the change, but with the PS4 launch coming I think it's good that things will be more intuitive. I'm also assuming that if it ends up being too much then Sok will compensate for it, and given his track record I think that's a reasonable assumption to make.

    As far as your complaints, it's been more than just about pounce and kb. You're starting to come across as bitter again over the last few days. Have a look at your post in the equipment preview thread. It's more than a little salty. In this thread you're starting to talk about "rare league rabble" when you haven't been playing yourself. Perhaps wait to see how things are adjusted before going off the deep end? Personally I really like seeing these preview threads and I'd hate to see them go away due to people raging on the forums before even seeing the end result. (Like has happened before with rune previews.)
     
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  19. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Ok, with that I can agree with.
    I'll take a step back this week, then.
    But I still think KB change was terrible for the game (specially that Domichasm still exists), Pounce is being made into a joke of an ability and there are some clearly op equips there that were "tuned".
    You wont be hearing from me anymore on these subjects.
     
    Anima26, SPiEkY and ChiaoLung like this.
  20. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    I was fine with this, until Barbarian Guardian got reworked to have several amazing "teamwork" abilities, while Lonx Defender and Guardian are pretty self-centered(except for that one ability that makes Lonx the best targets for Echoes). And no, I'm not asking for buffs as much as I'm wondering about the parameters for such choices(to be honest Defender in Lonx could end up being too much, not to mention it's cool that themes don't have access to all buffs).
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016

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