PCR5 Suggestion Thread (illustrated edition)

For those who don't know, I am the underdepths representative on the player council, and advise gedden on balance changes. This thread is your chance to talk about UD runes you are unhappy with or would like to see changed in the next balance patch.

Proposed changes so far (not by any means finalised):

1) GREATER PITSPAWN (BUFF)

Looking at the Pitspawn, I could literally write an essay about all the reasons why he is bad: None of his abilities work well with his stats: deathstrike - great ability, but when he's hitting for 22 anyway do you really want to pay 17 nora to do a 50% hp hit? Searing touch? If i am hitting something with high damage i want it to die there and then. Curse? Does he look like the kind of gargantuan psychotic demon who would mutter under his breath at you? Titan is an especially screw you UD ability since it involves planar bound (no beckon), bloodless (no sacrifice) and unequipable (no demonshield).

Anyway, what do people feel about this build? I'm going for a very straightforward walks up to you and smacks you to pieces type approach, because, well, look at that art, he clearly doesn't do subtlety :


"grrrrrrrr"

Greater Pitspawn (edited with suggestions):
18 dam | 6 speed |range 1-2 | def 2 | 68hp
upgrade path 1: Fear 2 | Horrific Aura 1 | Terrify
upgrade path 2: Crushing Blow | Clamp | Slam
Base: Attack Physical, Colossal, Immunity Fire, Titan, Death nova fire 4

HA and crushing blow build would be 109 nora.

Removed deathstrike and searing touch from base, removed the curse upgrade path. Crushing blow and knockback because i like the idea of giant f=cking titan punching you into an oompa lumpa or just whacking you across the map, clamp as rasiel suggested to stop them running away.

Ideally I would kinda like to petition for the titan ability to be reworked to include colossal (it's a TITAN ffs) and lose all the unnecessary crap, but after it took so long to get AA in decent shape I don't know if there would be much support for this.

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2) DEEP ELF TEMPTRESS (BUFF)



The distraction is caused by her daring choice of party wear

8 dam | 6 speed |range 2-3 | def 0 | 40hp
upgrade path 1: Punish | Energy Thief | Entangling attack
upgrade path 2: Charm 1 | Charm 2 | Charm 3
Base: Attack Magic, Distract

Looking at around 64-70 Nora

In this build she becomes a CC master, a hit from her will both hindering their movement and preventing them using abilities. Energy thief is there provisionally, i would prefer another attack based cc in that slot.


3) LAVA TRAP (BUFF)



This relic is easily the worst trap, and has been so crappy since release that i never even considered it for a buff. It was orginally penned in for last patch, but other priorities took over.

Old: This relic is deployed stealthed. When an enemy champion moves within 2 spaces of the trap, the relic is destroyed and enemy champions within range take 8 Fire damage and become Charred 3. This damage ignores DEF. The location of the relic becomes lava for 5 turns.

New: This relic is deployed stealthed. When an enemy champion moves within 2 spaces of the trap, the relic is destroyed and enemy champions within range take 8 Fire damage and become Charred 3. This damage ignores DEF. Two squares surrounding the relic becomes deep (impeding) lava for 5 turns.

Might be able to set up some damage as careless enemies walk through the lava, or use it to protect something, or trap an enemy.


4) RELOCATE DEMON (NERF)




Cost goes from 6 to 12. This would mean the DEP would go to 71 Nora.

This was a long time coming, but I don't think we need the DEP as a crutch rune anymore. Having said that, she is a champ that defines a playstyle, and to some extent the faction itself -- so I want to keep her strong, just a bit less strong. Hopefully this will allow other options to get a look in, even if she remains the main mobility source in meta/demon decks.


5) SPIDERLINGS (NERF)




Spiderling hitpoints go to 10 from 15.

Spiders are a very strong theme and much of this is down to the ability to pump out a never ending swarm of spiderlings from multiple cheap sources. This nerf will tone down that summon spam and encourage a style more based on real champs which I believe is more healthy overall.

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Summery of runes in the running for a change, feel free to suggest possible builds, ideas, runes to be changed -- anything else you want in the patch.

Runes that are bad and should be buffed:

Greater Pitspawn
Hekatian Bloodguard
Captive Lorekeeper
Phase Spider
Mindstorm
Lava Trap
Deep Elf Temptress
Sheoul Firebow
Screaming Imp
Deep Leviathan
Redcap Twins (yeah, they got overnerfed)
Soulthirster

Things that might need Nerfing:

Deep elf Priestess (beckon)
Dimension Shift (minos)
Creep and Crawl
Spiderlings
Warogg
Nefari Guardian
masochism

Things that are ok but that might want changing to make them prettier:

Magma Elemental (fire eater)
Grundlewolf Alpha (deep wound grundlewolf synergy)
Deep elf Summoner (lose tormented to lower price?)
Sheoul Magus (my changes to made him playable, but i worry that it's a bit of a newbie crusher and generally not fun to play against -- actually i'm a little worried he is a sleeper OP rune).
Sheoul Disciple (buggy/weird ability)

New Mechanics:

Bok Racial (ideas welcome) - this might be a slightly longer term thing, patch after next possibly.

Themes which are lacking:
Imps

 

I think the Deep Elf Temptress has a design problem in the sense that there is no effective way to use her. She seems to be designed with the intention that she is going to be this annoying charm & fear control font contest rune. However, she is too slow and too easily worked around/dispatched to be one of those annoying, Succubus-esque font contest runes, whilst charm and fear are not that strong on a low priority target and do not serve a strong control function. So she is one of those runes that is not really useful in and of herself unless her stats are really good (which isn't the case). If she is to be a font contest rune, she should really be looking at better durability and at least six speed. Alternatively if she a control rune, she probably needs stronger control abilities to compliment punish (she has a snake in the splash art - perhaps envenom?) . On a slightly unrelated note, I've always thought bind/assault/clamp/constriction/entangling attack would be right down her alley.

If beckon demon is going to be changed, it's map discrepancy needs to be looked at. Effectively it sometimes it is a four space gap closer, other times it is a six move gap closer - perhaps it wouldn't be such a problem if it were consistently a four space closer (which I suppose makes it comparable to invigorate). Also, perhaps it might be better if beckon demon was part of the attack chain (beckon is probably better than invigorate for a lot of aggressive moves because you move the space with the priestess too, allowing her to get attacks on the target).

Anyway, those are my thoughts ^^

 

Bok guardian

65n/8/6/1-1/2/48

Base: basic attack, flight (+6)
Path1: block (+8/10)
Path2: riposite (+4/5/6)

Without abilities (only basic attack):
65-6-8-4=47

Changes

69~72 /8/6/1-1/2/48

Base: basic attack (fire), flight (+6), bleed (+6)
Path1: defensive attack (+1/3/5)
Path2: vigilance (+8), absorb (+8), antagonize (+6)


Bok gatekeeper

70/10/6/1-1/2/47

Base: basic attack, flight (+6), block 2 (+10), shield throw (+6)
Path1: defender of chaos (+4/6)
Path2: soulshift (+5), impassioned (+3), noble sacrifice (+8)

Changes:

68~77/10/6/1-1/2/47

Base: basic attack, block 2 (+10), flight (+6), shield throw (+6)
Path1: defender of chaos (+4/6), bleed (+6)
Path2: impassioned (+3), noble sacrifice (+8), shrine linked (+1)

Shrine link and defender of chaos have a nice interaction.


Bok Warden

73/12/6/1-1/1/48

Base: basic attack, arrowshot (+7), flight (+6) precision (+6)
Path1:enrage 1 (+2), vengeful (+4), pace (+4)
Path2: detection (+2/4/6)

Changes

71~77/12/6/1-1/1/48

Base: basic attack, arrowshot (+7), flight (+6)
Path1: pin down (+8), hinder movement (+6), bleed (+6)
Path2: blood tracker (+2), detection 1 (+2), precision (+6)

 

Hekatian bloodguard

"The support of the hekatian order does not come free, grimlic. Blood is our price."

92/7/6/1-1/1/40

Base: attack magical, blood dispersal (+12), flight (+6), pet: screaming imp (+35)
Path1: drive (+5), ivigorate (+5), bleed (+6)
Path2: drain (+2/4)

92-12-6-35-5-2=32


Changes:

71~81/7/6/1-3/1/45

Base: attack magical, blood dispersal (+12), flight (+6), aerial supremancy (+7)
Path1: pull (+10), blood for nora (+9)
Path2: bleed (+6), drive (+5), designate scapegoat (+5) / ivigorate 1/2 (+5/11)

 

Good analysis of the temptress, I feel she needs a bit more bite as well as more reliable CC -- whispers of the mind might be fun?

At the moment I'm thinking it would be better to change the cost of beckon only - possibly reducing the speed on the priestess to keep her price down.

 

red caps are good though. game winning even...

 

I don't think beckon is that big a problem, especially since UD has no range so they need to get melee in and out. Nobody's complaining about relocate ally on voil transporter which is a much better ability and every expansion brings more non-demon champs. Creep & crawl could be bumped to 5 champs and then reevaluated, its super easy to get now but spiders need it or they're pretty weak. Spiderlings could lose creep & crawl and go to 4sp so they become useless except for surge fodder. Right now they're pretty good summons. Warogg I hope can be left alone. He's good but not amazeballs and zerk + unstoppable is not omgwtfbbq like people make it out to be. Arachnablades shouldn't create an egg that hatches same turn, that just defeats the purpose of an egg being created.

For buffs:
I'd love to see temple of brutality get a range limit and work on your turn. Nefari Mind Tomb would be great to be changed to be more useful, maybe same price but change range to 1. Nefari Exchange is terrible, it'd be nice for it not to be. Nefari Messenger seems way overpriced.

For themes:
Imps are good, but the theme needs 3 legendaries. Ouch! Goblins are halfway there and just need a little love, any chance of them getting some attention? Deep elves are a great beginner theme but there's just no point to building a deck around them because GT rarely does much damage and Servile Brute is awesome but not enough. A couple new runes, a special ability or some buffs to the shoeboxed ones would be great.

 

thirster is a lost cause need to revalue gluttony and give increase damage

 

for your bg yes ^.^








Goblin theme is lacking too

 

Bok Warden
73/12/6/1-1/1/48

Base: basic attack, arrowshot (+7), flight (+6) precision (+6)
Path1:enrage 1 (+2), vengeful (+4), pace (+4)
Path2: detection (+2/4/6)

Changes
71~77/12/6/1-1/1/48

Base: basic attack, arrowshot (+7), flight (+6)
Path1: pin down (+8), hinder movement (+6), bleed (+6)
Path2: blood tracker (+2), detection 1 (+2), precision (+6)


No jus because we have a weak blood theme doesn't mean that everything should be a blood theme so please leave warden the way she is she is perfectly balanced.


Hekatian bloodguard

"The support of the hekatian order does not come free, grimlic. Blood is our price."

92/7/6/1-1/1/40

Base: attack magical, blood dispersal (+12), flight (+6), pet: screaming imp (+35)
Path1: drive (+5), ivigorate (+5), bleed (+6)
Path2: drain (+2/4)

92-12-6-35-5-2=32


Changes:

71~81/7/6/1-3/1/45

Base: attack magical, blood dispersal (+12), flight (+6), aerial supremancy (+7)
Path1: pull (+10), blood for nora (+9)
Path2: bleed (+6), drive (+5), designate scapegoat (+5) / ivigorate 1/2 (+5/11)\

I'm sorry but i rather have bloodguard loose dispersal than pet: imp cause blood dispersal is much more sandbagging her cost and Pet is still quite useful.With the tight nora contraints we need to have as many chamions to counter rushing so i believe the cost will be worth since you can use Screaming imp to contest with relics.

 

here are my suggestion
Angel of pain
people been complaining about her getting attack physical and having additional stab upgrade
recommendation: change attack physical to magic or change stab to life drinker

Champion Stats
DMG: 9| SPD: 7 | RNG:1| DEF: 1 | HP: 49
Champion Abilities
Attack: Magical
Absorb
Escalation
Flight
Intensify

Upgrade Path 1
Rend1/2/3
Upgrade Path 2
Stab/Bleed/Ariel supremacy

Demonologist
i really like this champ but he would be more useful if he had a definite range 2-3 range we need to decide if should be a melee champion or range champion
either change his range to 2-4 or even 3-4 or change him to a melee 1-3
Champion Stats
DMG: 9| SPD: 6 | RNG:2-4/RNG:3-4| DEF: 1 | HP: 42
Champion Abilities
Attack: Magical
Ritual of Destruction
swarm: Deep Elf Skeleton
Upgrade Path 1
Drain /Summon imp 1 /Pawn
Upgrade Path 2
Bleed/ Lifedrinker/ Life siphon

hekitian Bloodgaurd
The problem is she way too expensive nora wise i think that they should remove switch bleed and blood dispersal that way she can keep her abilities and loose some of her cost 6n
to make he slighly higher give her higher stats


Champion Stats
DMG: 7| SPD: 6 | RNG:1| DEF: 1 | HP: 42
Champion Abilities
Attack: Magical
Flight
Bleed
Upgrade Path 1
Drive/ Invigorate
Upgrade Path 2
Drain 2/ Blood tracker
I think blood tracker on bloodgaurd is quite good and not as OP

Hakitian Voidraker
Firstly DoG need to fix he sprite it been screwed up for ages
I think that the second upgrade paths need to be changed

Champion Stats
DMG: 11| SPD: 6 | RNG:1| DEF: 1 | HP: 45
Champion Abilities
Attack: Magicical
Flight
Void shield
Void touch
Upgrade Path 1
Iron Will/ / Fearless /Unstoppable
Upgrade Path 2
Solidify (2n)/ Feint (3n)/ shrive (6n)
I believe feint and shrive will give better debuffs to help increase damage for her and other champs

 

Like the idea of buffing some of the many useless equip/spells/relics we have

 

I'd like to see Sheoul Brand not be a worse Flameheart Pauldron.

 

Whispers of the mind sounds good. As for the priestess, I'm not sure whether it would be better, if you are raising the price of beckon, to keep her at seven speed. She might be more expensive that way, but more functional. With that being said, pricey melee units with 44 health is probably a bad idea. I suppose it depends on what sort of cost increase you are looking at here. I guess the decision is yours ^^

 

Okay, so I've been thinking a bit more about a bok racial, and I have come up with this idea - it might be bad, and if so then tell me. It is comprised of two abilities, all bok champs would either have one or the other available on upgrades, or a choice between the two:

Director of the Order (activated ability, cooldown 10, AP 2):
Selected enemy champion within 4 spaces is Marked by the Hekatian Order

Enforcer of the Order:
Whenever this champion attacks a enemy who is Marked by the Hekatian Order it deals an additional five electricity damage.

---
Not sure if extra damage is the way to go, or something a little more nuanced, but I like the play between directors and enforcers.

Edit: it also leaves it open for new bok to get new interactions with marked by the order.

 

I can dig it.

 

CD seems just a little much to me, maybe 8?

 

DE summoner is extremely powerfull now that she has pawn, anything that could be percieved as a buff is not a good way to go with her.
Also I dont believe Bok need a racial, but if you went for something I§d like to see something like a power struggle thing. (besides IS or KF already have this whole +5 dmg thing somewhere)

Owerhtrow: target friendly bok champion with less than 20% health is destroyed, this champion gains +x/+y, not exactly sure what, its hould be rather powerfull given that it's extremely situational and you lose a champ in the process

 

The suggested bok racial seems like a shitty version of dogpile imo. Maybe something like whenever you have 3+ boks out, all boks gain encouraged or protective. I agree with Rasiel tho, they don't really need it.

 

I'd like to see the bugs in UD fixed like Disciples Rapture, Familiar, Revere: Firemaw, and now masochism.