Phylactery Bound vs Rebirth

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rokkushun, May 25, 2015.

  1. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Phylactery bound; 30 nora
    When this unit is deployed from the runedock, a Phylactery relic is spawned adjacent to it. If a Phylactery is in play when this unit dies, the nearest Phylactery relic is destroyed and this unit is reanimated in its place.

    Full hp, currently higher than phoenix starting values (by 14, phoenix's total hp counting both lives is only 3 lower than EL)
    a relic that can guard a font sort-of? relic is summoned

    Relic has 2 HP
    Random spawn position (could block paths)
    If the relic dies you wasted 30 nora.
    CD does not reset on first death.
    No bonus after reviving


    Rebirth; 30 nora
    When this champion is destroyed, it drops no nora globe and is redeployed in the closest friendly deployment zone without this ability, but permanently has Initiative 2, +4 DMG and +25 MAX HP.

    ALWAYS revive unless killed by defile corpse (maybe) defile corpse does not affect it (presently)
    Rune CD starts after the first death
    Bonus stats
    Comes in with AP

    It costs 30 nora? I guess?


    possible solutions;
    Shave 5-10 nora off phylactery bound, or consolidate it into rebirth.
    Make it PB add stats on revive, range sounds lich-y
    Give the pot more hp, along with -5 nora discount

    Really needs fixed;
    Make rebirth have the rune not cooldown until it dies AFTER rebirth activates.
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  2. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    phylactery bound sucks, i wish they woulda made it cheaper instead of taking off hoarfrost. I think it is a cool ability but might be difficult to balance.
    TheBulwark and avichaif like this.
  3. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I wish hoarfrost had it on upgrades tbh, it's an expensive ability that not everyone wants.
  4. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    That's because it isn't costed properly. If it was it might be more useful.
    TheBulwark likes this.
  5. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    The relic can't actually guard a font because it's a summon. On the flip side, you can grab the over-inflated nora globe from the first death and the second!

    Phylactery Bound is ass. Even worse, Eternal Lich would be a mediocre champ as-is without it. That 2-6 RNG is apparently costing her through the teeth; 59 nora for 9 DMG, 6 SPD, and 39 HP.
    claydude5 and Rokkushun like this.
  6. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    Range 4-6, not 2-6. If it were 2-6 she would cost like +15 nora(wild guess).
  7. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Wait, so your saying a new rune is undercosted compared to a similar predecessor? I find that hard to believe.
  8. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Sorry, that was a typo, I do actually do research.

    Mainly that E Lich is actually just a bad rune from multiple angles.
  9. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    If you don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation please refrain from posting.
  10. claydude5

    claydude5 The King of Potatoes

    To be Fair, Rebirth Champions get a discount due to the low base stats as a whole, where hoarfrost lich and eternal lich have full hp and ass other stats.
  11. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    No man, few runes have manual cost adjustments, thats not my point. What I mean is efficiency; compare Magearm with Silverclan Protector for example. This is why people bashed so much at Warogg too, by comparing him with Abomination... My favorite comparison was Flamehurler and Emerald Wing: both had the same stats(not anymore), but Emerald wing costed 84 nora and Flamehurler 66.

    So, it's not about being under or overcosted, it's about the immediate advantages a rune brings to the field compared to others with similar roles/stats, and ability synergy is the biggest villain.
  12. Xuvali

    Xuvali Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Defile Corpse doesn't work on rebirth, but then there are very few things it does work on.
    mw24 likes this.
  13. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    stiched/nova....something else?
  14. Moles

    Moles Administrator Octopi

    Defile corpse doesn't stop rebirth?
  15. Xuvali

    Xuvali Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Yep. Confirmed testing both with units that have it by default and when giving via Sustain: Defile Corpse.

    Also doesn't Stop Death Knight coming back as Lich Knight.

    I would be happy to test any other death effects to identify what it doesn't work on if it is something that would be likely fixed.
  16. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Spot on.
  17. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Edited OP with changes.
  18. TheBulwark

    TheBulwark I need me some PIE!

    I think its a boy
  19. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

  20. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Phylactery looks O.K. not stellar when comparing it with rider champs. However rider champs pretty much suck right now since most rider abilities are in the 40-50 nora range meaning the champ is butt.

    In all reality Phylactery bound could stand to be shaved but the champ itself will still be butt unless it's significant.
    Eternal lich basically needs its ability to mesh better for the cost you're paying upfront with the added risk of it NOT spawning which is much more likely then lich born at 35 nora and rebirth.

    Giving him Soulshift would make him at least backloaded efficient fixing him more into a tempo play which fits the play style.

    This does bring up things like Aspiring Servant which is 30 nora and even MORE conditional then phylactery bound since it relies on another unique champ to be in play.

    Very overcost but probably as a means to keep them very far from being too efficient.

    Dark knight took a big hit as well and is sadly in the same spot.

    Again you could either address the abilities or just the design which I think is the main crux.

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