Player Expansion Preview/Discussion (Protectorate Champions)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. GoldTiger

    GoldTiger I need me some PIE!

    Horn pilfer and tortun cannon barrage spell are both also pretty legit.

    I personally think they have potential.
     
  2. Senshu

    Senshu Administrator Octopi

    Because of how this will be rolling out there will likely not be a video like we have done in the past for this expansion. Partially because it is a player expansion most of the info is already known. If there is enough time we will look into doing a video.
     
    Etherielin, Qucas and Tweek516 like this.
  3. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    Is Lost Tribe Cannibal going to be the only Consume unit in the next expansion? Still need to read the Wrath list.
     
  4. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    @Sokolov
    - Dang I didn't know "lead the charge" was an ability... considered this for Sarng. Vanguard?

    - I continue to wish Nexus Aura was the ability pulled from the theme and incite left in some more balanced form...since incite promoted a more aggressive style for barbs I thought was more their purpose. I know invigorate is powerful but for chieftain it just doesn't feel right....too expensive and you don't typically want you invigorate champ in the front line...so his beater statline is counter intuitive I feel.
     
  5. Wolvon

    Wolvon The King of Potatoes

    Im flattered they used one of my ideas, but damn what happened to the rest of his abilities ? =(..... do i get that specific rune for free by the way ? Grint Earth Crasher, Grint Shocker with abosrb at least, or a version of Grint bastion might've been cool to add to the expansion as well..... maybe next time. Thanks for listening though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  6. Wolvon

    Wolvon The King of Potatoes

    Bro i did make a grintmaw with battle drum but they didn't use him.... *sigh*. Plus they kind of nerfed my sound aspect or Monotone. I'll post my original designs.
     
  7. Wolvon

    Wolvon The King of Potatoes

    Name: Grintmaw War drummer IS Rarirty: Legendary
    Description: let the sounds of the war drums inspire them
    Race: troll
    Class: bard
    Stats: Health: 48 Speed: 6 Defense: 2 Range: 1-3 Damage: 11
    Base:
    attack-sonic

    Rock defiance, battle drum, defiant, enrage, faithless

    Upgrades:
    U1: tough 2, foe:warrior, shielded
    U2: deafening aura, sonic aura, grant: sonic aura
     
    aseryen likes this.
  8. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    Battle drum would be great, just to mix up the abilities on Grintmaw, although if I had to chose, I prefer ability stacking than STAT stacking for Grintmaw.

    Battle drum - Give me STATs
    Sustain: Rock Defiance - target unit gains Rock Defiance until targets change or either unit dies
    Enchant: Rock Defiance - similar to enchant magic but perhaps a Tinkerer or Shaman can gain this to apply Rock Defiance on equipped allies.

    So last night I was thinking of rune ideas and was mulling over 'Spontaneous Regeneration: Essence Devourer' - I think this would be awesome! I couldn't decide if it should be on a Zombie, Lich, Vampyre, Undead, Skeleton, Troll, Construct, Stitched or maybe even Worm. There is something here. Perhaps another Troll so that there can be less gimmicks and more traditional Troll/Hymn bgs that can start to split with FW.
     
  9. Wolvon

    Wolvon The King of Potatoes

    no.... grints dont need to split into fw. They need to be better stand alone so they can become meta, which is the ultimate goal. The monotone is great, another cheap champ with great potential to help harass and supress enemy abilities but i wish they would slap on one more useful ability to the rune.
     
  10. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    That's just to say that Vampyres didn't need to break into K'thir. Define Meta at that point, when it's subject to change based on the races a rune has. There are more and more double and triple race runes; this is not a problem and absolutely helps the meta. I think Tortuns are the epitome of split runes due to their mix flavor in both Protectorate and Wrath factions (KF & SL) and I would go out on a limb here to say that Trolls/Rock Defiance has been the 'grey' runes for IS (possibly all of Poxnora?)

    Trolls can just as easily break into FS because of The Collective and already it having non-faction units. There has to be more Marsh Trolls; similarly with Essence Devourer...there has to be more undead Trolls; to not design something because it is not meta is a garbage excuse. Which is essentially saying you're not going to do something because the public eye is not looking in that direction. Since we can design runes we can then create the perspective for the public to see; ultimately creating the meta...cause & effect. If we stay stagnant the water gets putrid, not to say that adding Runes to their respective themes stagnates the water but when it doesn't disrupt the water enough it has the same effect.

    Since I play Trolls a lot and I can look and see; there are so many Elves, Demons, Skeletons, Undead...wtf is a Corgi Elf to an Undead Troll or Vampyre Troll? Why is that so meta worthy when there's a theme lacking? Limiting design because the meta isn't there when the meta is created by design makes absolutely no sense. Balance and Meta are two separate things that can be drawn in a ven diagram but just as equally their own circles. Several years ago there would have been no discussion of Spare Parts and Rock Defiance but because another race was added into the mix there now is a new meta arriving. Meta certainly does not mean peak or precipice; but more so the norm and expected...it just so happens that OP and efficiency is the norm/expected but by no means should all these words be used to define each other and further dictate design.

    Poxnora Service Announcement #2 ty :)

    Nothing specific to you @Wolvon, just good to write and get an idea out. I certainly agree I would love to play FF Grints as you put it. However I'm stuck in my ways and refuse to see Grintmaws are the sole weilders of RD. The equip stonearm sash should show the pox inhabitants that Rock Defiance is a power worth having; certainly Rock Defiance is a higher tier than Grints/Trolls and Construct/Rock Defiance is higher tier than Grintmaws alone so while I certainly want Grintmaws to 'gain a higher tier rank' having Rock Defiance break into other factions and themes would be more beneficial as a whole for Poxnora, not just Grintmaw Trolls which are a subpar theme alone...cookie cutter runes are made just to add more fodder for Rock Defiance procs...which is booooring

    Of course this is not to say that the numbers Grintmaw has now won't resemble that of Constructs in years to come. I just want their breaking in to other factions a bit more expedited for the sake of design in Poxnora.

    Let's get a Troll King Demi-God or Hero; certainly more deserving than Constructs right ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  11. Wolvon

    Wolvon The King of Potatoes

    I like the idea of a split but only if the the split rune brings something the bg that gives it an edge against higher tier decks. We need a dedicated tank, 2 or more offensive based champs, a versatile detection champ, more ap gen, one good Grintmaw healing unit, and a GOOD Grintmaw hero or any hero with rock defiance. Then we also need a Grintmaw other than the equip stone sash that grants rock defiance to other units.

    Ability: Grant: Rock Defiance
    Cooldown 4
    1 ap
    Grants unit rock defiance, if unit already has rock defiance they get 1 rank of regeneration.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
    aseryen likes this.
  12. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    Sustain: Rock Defiance
    Spontaneous Regeneration - X (I'm hoping Units can be added to proc this ability; Groble for instance or Earth Golem to increase rune incentive which is what SR is intended to accomplish)
    Declare Target - would prefer this over Nexus Aura honestly but Nexus Aura ofc

    I really don't like handicaps as a standard for upgrades but I wouldn't mind having some units that have exactly what the theme(s) need and that handicap upgrade line.

    Race/Class I have a list of Races I prefer but if Rock Defiance stays Trolls/Constructs I really don't mind. I just wouldn't mind playing more circus decks that have been intentionally designed for.
    Base Stats - very vanilla and if we get some super low stats to support some fringe OP ability sets that would be ideal (Healing Deficiency, Spontaneous Regeneration, Devourable, Bestow; all on one rune seems crazy but I've thought about it and it could work)
    Base abilities - vanilla or perhaps very specific ability sets (many races can be designed to interact with Rock Defiance or even have acquired Stonearm Sash along the way for lores sake)
    U1 - This could be to change the specific role of the unit; i.e. Class: none but perhaps class specific or theme enabling abilities for u2
    U2 - handicap

    Trolls - would like to see some orders made other than Grintmaws
    Constructs - Perhaps race: Troll, Construct or some units with Statue Form or Animate
    Vampyre - Consume (working on a new rune design rn)
    Undead - pretty much every Undead can benefit from Spare Parts it's just up to the role of that rune to get the slot
    Skeleton - Trolls have to die is all I can say; There are a few races that are more states of being than race and so it can be justified for most races to have Undead/Skeleton/Zombie/Mutant multi-race runes
    Lich - another good Consume theme imo; ravish plays pretty well with Spare Parts
    Worms - because Ravish, also Necro Hex benefits the theme for both Worms and Spare Parts
    Zombie - Troll, Zombie works

    Draksar? - Taint is pretty good for Spare Parts in some regards, at least SL can get both upgrades compared to UD/FS/ST/SP(until identity crisis is fixed)

    Rock Defiance can be the Grintmaws interaction with this ability, perhaps make some warchief - Rock Defiance esque ability that is for non-Grintmaw Trolls. I just like the idea of Grintmaws being the barbarians of the Trolls and then there being all the other creeds of Troll across Poxanthuru.

    It would be great for IS/SL or FS to get a Troll on the Tortuns ship. And honestly a lot of other races could easily be placed in the navy; which is where I see turncoats and slaves all being plausible rune options. This is of my ideal
     
  13. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    I do agree we need a hero haha but I also want a more clear reason for Heros in the game; make them similar to Shrines where we are given one before the game and it does not count toward our deck limit; give us an extra deck.

    Or make hero an attainable feat that any unit rune can be distinguished with by completing specific objectives; this can carry on from match to match or reset, lots of room here to play.

    That's all going to be in Pox2.0
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    In general, if the rune you designed didn't turn out the way you wanted, feel free to make suggestions (I am pretty open to adjustments as you have seen).

    But keep in mind I had to make it work within the confines of balance/formula.
     
  15. hfok

    hfok I need me some PIE!

    In regards to hydrant, could you still keep at least a tough (any rank) on the 2nd upgrade?

    After reading what others have said it makes me feel that tough wasn't as boring as I thought.

    Thank you!
     
    Kampel likes this.
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Domain: Water, Tough X, Extinguish, Splash

    Pick 3.
     
  17. Wolvon

    Wolvon The King of Potatoes

    Name: Grintmaw Scrapper *UPDATED*
    Description: Don't get too close their fist will set you a blaze
    Race: Troll
    Class: warrior
    Stats: Health: 48 Speed: 6 Defense: 2 Range: 1-2 Damage: 9
    attack- fire

    Rock defiance, scrapper, nora induction

    U1: massive leap, strike, render
    U2: multi attacker 1, fury, opportunistic assault

    I really think this grint would be awesome addition and i dont think its overly powerful. Its strong no doubt but i feel like its nothing people cant handle in this game. The draksar have cheaper and tougher units than this so i feel its not over stepping any boundaries. If you can use him instead of monotone i think that would be awesome.

    Grintmaw Monotone
    Race: Troll
    Class: Bard
    Size: Small

    DMG: 10
    SPD: 6
    RNG: 1-4
    DEF: 1
    HP: 47

    Cost: ~65

    Attack: Sonic
    Rock Defiance
    Nora Induction
    Encouraged

    U1: Distracting Blows (Default), Shatter, Deafening Aura
    U2: leap 1, provision: utility, camaraderie

    If not we can stick with monotone as you guys have decided but then can we have him set up like this ? I feel like he is lacking and i want him to really give the grints an edge.
     
  18. hfok

    hfok I need me some PIE!

    @Kampel
    I am thinking to not include Extingusih for tough x, since you are the one who suggests the 2nd upgrade line, I would really like to hear what you think too.
     
  19. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    I think those are all good abilities but i think Splash would end up being the one never picked over the others.
    Imo splash has less utility and FS could use access to Extinguish (they have FS/UD Overlord bg and others with fire/Water theme)
     
    hfok likes this.
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I can't change it to a completely different unit. Art is already done.

    You also suggested Sunder to base? What is it you want exactly?

    I am also not sure how this is better than what I proposed. You are basically trading -2 DMG for Encouraged and Leap 1 and it'd cost 2-3 nora more. I mean, he has a bunch more abilities, but I fail to see how it makes him a better unit. If Grintmaw were a chap

    What is it exactly that makes you feel he is "lacking" and how does your proposal fix that?

    To put it another way, how do you feel your design is intended to make him give Grints "an edge?" What elements are important to that idea that is missing from the current version?

    (I am not against changes, but I need to understand why, especially if it makes the design more complicated.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017

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