Please remove unattainable runes from ranked

You think he's wrong in this situation ? as a fairly new player I would relish in the opportunity to get some of these runes. He does argue his point, you guys just chose to skip over it lol.

 

I don't think runes should be removed from ranked unless they are a meta problem. I.E. Temple of Brutality. Fan Faire is not over the top broken.
As far as its rarity goes, making it legendary would make the limited version pointless unless the limited version had an alternate animation or something. For the opp to know you are even using it, they would have to check the combat log. Alternate art/rarity just doesn't play out the same way with spells/equips.

 

no one knows when in playing my LE Bullseye....

 

I can understand where you're coming from here, but that doesn't mean his overall point about unavailable runes is incorrect. And he's not been the only person to point out such.

Is this even important at all?

 

Some runes like Doombringers and Angels I agreed with the reskins. However when it comes to Harbs, harbs shouldn't be something that everyone has. Reskin a Harb and you can make all the money you want, but they'll piss off more players.

Then what would be the point of Limited version spells?


In my Pox career I've spent maybe, $500-700 by choice. I've even managed to make profit off playing Poxnora. No rune besides stuff like Lich Knight is unobtainable.

 

So maybe ban Harbs for "competitive" play? I'm with others that have said it should be discussed on a case-by-case basis, but I do think inequality is an issue... provided of course the game can retain players long enough.

Alt art still pleases the owner, collectors being collectors.

That said, I'm not at all against adding some additional (cosmetic) effect to LIM spells. New/different particle effects (where applicable) for example, having in the case of Fan Faire a more unique sound and/or having the target say something nifty, etc. Clairvoyance could have some image flash across the screen or some effect around the Shrine/Avatar briefly, etc.

Such effects would also encourage people to check out the log and maybe see the alt art during the game itself as well.

There is that I suppose. I'm not the sort to actually quibble too much about ease of attainability so long as it is actually present... But it is a hard-limited number on many of these cards. Which means if this game were ever to grow, stuff like Harbs would either need to be bad, banned, or have alternative versions to have a "fair" playing field for all those that wish to invest.

Practically speaking, it may be that the game never gets that many players ever again. On the other hand, the more players that do leave, and don't sell/trade off their collections, the more Harbs and similar cards go into the eternally unused accounts limbo (effectively destroyed). But again that's not an immediate concern.

Of course, the other option would be doing what MTG and Hearthstone did, and having a more limited format that might be easier for people to get into. At least, more than Draft Tournaments.

 

Harbs are good (mainly looking at you UD harb), but are they overpowered? I don't think so.
People that have them will use them for bragging rights. It is why you use the X-mas Grimlic and Presidential Vindrax over the exo version. There are 2000+ different runes, surely you can find an alternative. It won't be able to do the exact same thing, but I don't think it has to do so.

 

I'm with @Cydna here - lim spells shouldn't get leg versions - it entirely defeats the point of the lim versions.

 

Alternatively, further sales to keep them present as what they are, an option. Using a Harbinger has both advantages and limitations as much as any other rune, the only difference lies in their cost. I don't know what it is that has made them not consider this option unless it's legal issues involved with the rune itself and previous owners, since it would keep both parties happy.

I am not okay with runes being released once and never becoming accessible myself either (and again whilst particularly hard this isn't quite the case here), but no matter how you look at it a re-skin in conjunction with the forge will just obliterate their value.

Take Dooms as an example, they were high cost runes barely worth using other than being a collector's item with a nice taunt (IS one had ranged Warcry though hurhur). You could trade 2-3 Dooms (depending on the faction) for a Harbinger (pretty much anything non KF or UD). Despite not being popular or usable in games for the most part they still could be used to acquire higher end runes. Then for whatever reason it was decided that out of all the runes in Pox they had to be the ones to be modified to be 'good stuff deck worthy' and get a re-skin. This together with the forge tanked their value completely. So much 'decondor' swiftly moved the Dooms to the main trader as opposed to being cash only. What has this achieved? People rarely took them into account when constructing decks and only the taunt came to mind whenever a Doombringer was brought up. It had a trade value (which is not linked to what decondor thinks or poxbox, believe it or not people that trade often have a general consensus regarding value that tends to digress from decondor's stupid prices), keyword being had.

The same thing happened to Angels and 150ks, the re-skins didn't really affect them as much initially (might be wrong here since I was not around when this happened) because the forge was not around, but as soon as it came it tanked their value because the Legendary versions were hard to obtain (which wasn't a bad thing) prior to it. Neither of these runes (16 in total) hold the weight they used to as trading items anymore, which is why people seek out runes without re-skins or rare re-colors for their own.

I can't see the releasing of Limited runes via re-skin being a good option to help the trading environment simply because both their Limited Edition status and the runes themselves are what gives them value, and this idea defeats the purpose of having them in the first place.

These runes should have been kept being released on cycles to prevent this whole 'lack of accessibility' issue at bay and it isn't too late to start doing so either, but not for free, because initially it wasn't.

Think that rune is going to win you games so you want it badly? Pay for it or alternatively, let someone else do it and use the rune as trading leverage to get other things. Yadda yadda sharks, avoid LilyAngel and sharks overall and don't trade with them, it's as simple as that.

If nothing can be done with these matters, then they better start compiling ideas to remove trading on it's entirety from this game which to be honest, seems to be the goal due to certain decisions making it so LE runes can't be traded (genuine question, is it hard to set limitations on the runes you get from campaigns?) which again, will result in what is happening right now except worse because then they'll be really unattainable (sometimes I wonder if this is a sad ploy to retain players, then I tell myself nah, that'd be silly as Firk).

 

I really really hope dog isn't silly enough to release a new set of harbs. Honestly, just don't do it. (I don't even have any it would just be such a bad move).

Also, just gonna defend lilyangel here - she was a trader, taking a bit of profit each time - I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only traders I have a problem with is those who prey on new players who don't know the values of runes. She would use Poxbox values but just add 10/20%.

 

Her profit margins were always above 50% because she expected twice (or more) the amount of high end runes for a rune. That's how most of her trades went taking advantage of the fact that she was pretty much the only one with rare legendary runes in stock, putting not only value on the rune but accessibility. Don't even get me started on LE trades. Worth noting poxbox value meant squat because it never had anything good in stock and all trades revolved around OOS runes (poxbox values still mean squat guys, just saying). I'll never forget that one time I had to bid a Vanguard, Mosh and some other exo I can't remember for a Lonx Chieftain, and that was an offer she was hesitant to accept. Or that one time I had a fair bid for a Tundra Whisper (they were all the rage) and it was never enough (despite matching values on the runes, all of them being OOS, and overbidding according to her set value).

Not name shaming or anything, just calling it what it was, as well one of the reasons people were hesitant to try trading around. I was a new player and this was my first encounter, you can imagine how it went for others. Then the forge came and she vanished. Must have been a sad day for her. Poor soul.

I don't endorse further releases myself but if it's done then I hope it's done properly. That's all I ask. Don't do mass releases nor do re-skins.

 

so essentially the argument for not having a level playing field is cuz some traders may or may not make a profit... and nothing to do with gameplay?
theres not enough players for a healthy trading environment, ,, no one wants to trade a leg for a leg or exo for exo, even tho they have the same forge value and take the same effort to aquire, , but because poxbox says so,, then that's what is it..and now everyone wants to make a profit instead of an even trade... as long as poxbox exist, there will never be a healthy trading environment within the game itself. why would there be?
lets be real,,no ones trading in this "TCG", just sharking.
if I miss a special lim,, thats to bad for me,,,, maybe I was on hiatus ,or break,, maybe funds were low and I couldnt afford it,, so now I can never use this spell or champ in gameplay if its not forgable? or ill have to choose to trade in half my collection if I want to use the rune becuz its lim only? whos benefitting from this? dog? players? or 1 profiteer?
whether the runes are strong or not is an opinion when deck building, and the response "there not that powerful" may or may not be relevant,, but either way,, thats only for the person saying it,, because relevancy is relevant,.
collecting is fun I agree,,, but games (2me) are more fun,,
I signed up for complex, in depth stragety game,, instead its like a school yard game and now the kool kid is gonna whip out his super rare card that no one else has, to a chorus of oo's and ahhh's..and that's what were protecting?. gimmie a break.

all cards obtainable, , lim version with special colors, even different pixel animations would be awesome, and of course not available once they stop being sold...thats a lim., in product lim version usually mean an alternative of an already existing product, usually with some flair,, not a stand alone product with no counterpart...thats not a lim. thats just another product entirely.

 

No one is talking about profit here. If anything further re-skins narrow your possibilities of acquiring the runes you are mentioning. That's the problem. The game is advertised as TCG as far as I know, so it is an aspect to account for as much as any other.

Whether a healthy trading environment is possible or not doesn't rely on the existence of poxbox, it's the responsibility of both DOG and the community to make this the more enticing option and none of this has been done besides the forge, that indeed brought the chance of more even trades because sheer shard value is a thing now, yet instant traders remain the better option (you still have people such as Kalasle who would rather trade guild mates). However the rest of your argument surrounding this is mostly based on assumptions that claim nothing can be done about it, and that's wrong.

Also it has been you who has brought time and time again the subjectivity of a rune's power and stuff, yet you still portray them as a must. Again, there is a huge library of runes that provide gameplay on their own accord and they happen to be the vast majority, it bemuses me that you want to go after a particular group which is harder to obtain that allegedly might or might not bring anything onto the table. If you have plenty and I mean PLENTY of options what is the issue with putting some work to get a couple more? No, you don't have to spend money and no, you don't have to pile up millions upon millions of value. You're putting up walls for no particular reason. It's too bad people who had the chance to get these runes no longer play and won't come back most likely, which narrows the accessibility, yet doesn't mean you're entitled to acquire them basically for free.

The focus on these topics always seem to be the players for some reason when they're not at fault. All they did was acquire a product that was meant to be restricted. Whether there were going to be further releases or not isn't up to them, but it's not so much catering as it is mild respect that if you happen to release them again you do so under similar circumstances. No, this is not what drives players away, so don't even bother saying it.

It's all too sad, when I see LE runes I see potential to tighten the community through events. They had the right idea to have Haunting Spirits and Bog Zombies as rewards for a tournament, but that had to have limitations for obvious reasons and guess what, it didn't (still feel sorry for someone who shifted a couple of high value runes for 2 HS the day prior or something like that), guess what they are now? Garbage. Same for presidential re-skins. Traded a bunch of potential to keep the trading community going for what, one day of poxbox rune value?

There is no middle ground here and DOG is not known for half-assing things ('I don't want to be punished by playing constantly' *cue new ranking system with 56565 different tiers*), so I can only hope that whatever they come up with one day when it comes to this matter in particular is something well thought out and not a silly solution like re-skins to please everyone then have it be something regrettable because in reality all people wanted is to have these runes sitting on their checklist.

 

Eh, I always found her one of the better traders. She was purely concerned about the numbers - at the end of the day it's your choice to trade it.

I have no problem with any traders except those who lie to new players. You think their profit margins are too high you respectfully say no and move on to the next trader.

 

SL (known for dragons)..
do u think guardians treasure brings anything to the table?

 

That's how life works, yes. But there was a lot of the second thing you mentioned when it came to her, which again yes, is only bad if you let it happen, but there also lies the problem.

The appeal here is that any champion can deploy it and it can contest. Yet it is available on a champion that fits within the theme and gets to deploy it to get the benefit. Having the rune in isolation does grant options, but you also ought to remember it takes a rune slot and costs Nora.

I recall this being a recent release and I'm not entirely sure if ranked rewards were a thing with it, and it was a mega box thing right? So it should be tradable. Considering the type of rune it is it shouldn't be extremely hard to get (I mean the other day I logged onto the main site to see a dear friend of mine had gotten me two Ice statues, which are more or less the same kind of thing).

Also it's worth noting that these are being released on a current context, which kind of sets itself apart from the previous releases we have discussed.

There's my opinion anyway.

 

I think it brings alot,, and having an ability right out of my deck as opposed to on a champ is far superior, (corrode vs shatter ability, I would always prefer corrode), thats just my preference tho, which I think lends to my statement about relevance.
so I think me harping on those few cards has a bit of a justification. .just a bit , maybe.
I have a large collection,, put in much more then a couple 100$ since 09,, more then I care to admit prolly , and actually have 2 GTs , but I dont play SL much. my point is screw value,, if sok needs to change things for the betterment of the game,,, then knock yer soKs off.
been playing rts/tbs games my whole life, imagine the new civ6 comes out and if u get your hands on a limited boxed set,,your boats will all have a steel ram on its nose with+2 dam(only lim collectors box set), and reg box sets had a wooden nose and no bonus,,.this would be a big deal. and imo 1 card is 1 card to many.
this comparison maybe different, how much I dont know,, still, its a bit insulting no matter how I slice it. and of course a true competitive stragety game would never do this,, lim sets are asthetic in nature in most other games,,,, and as I said I can fully appreciate the TCG aspect,, and of course pox needs it to survive,,, as one who has spent plenty of $$$ on this game,, I just cant understand why special borders, animaes, taunts etc arent enough as the collectable aspect. . I guess thats where we differ,, but its kool either way

 

Corrode vs Shatter is a bit of a stretched comparison, especially to that of a relic. That aside I do understand where you're coming from, but it's not black or white.

This is the model that DOG has chosen to follow, or Pox in general regardless of who owned it at any given time. So the question is what can you do that keeps up with the environment you have procured (and keep on doing so since LE non re-skin runes keep being released) and how to provide tools that enhance accessibility. Going full out on re-skins is not the answer, and this is not a petty rune owner speaking (since my friend and I no longer have the collection we used to and only have a few runes left which are not Harb status) but as someone who simply enjoys trading. It's the way I have fun besides gameplay and the way I get to acquire runes to spread around the community to help out anyone regardless of the time they've spent playing this game. This is why I think these matters should be handled carefully and not be form part of any extremes.

There are many ways in which this could result in both benefits for the company and the community, so I think falling onto extremes and straight up ruling out the possibilities is a bad move, in my opinion.

That said I don't want to overstate my opinion so I'll just leave it hanging there. Just think of the bigger picture in every sense whenever you suggest any change.

 

I understand your points,, its just a little frustrating since none of them have anything to do with actual gameplay.

I dont even know what this game model is,, in the beginning we had the pox stock market, , now we have a runeforge,, models have changed more then a bit...and im sure it will continue.

to maintain a procured environment of about 65 people avg shouldnt be that hard,(not saying our topic is the reason 4 low pop, but I dont think it helps ,) no matter what we do at this point..
im not saying go make everything forgable,, but in the future exp lets not alienate people who may not have the ability or $$$ to aquire all the powers there chosen fac has available to them cuz they couldnt spend money on a mega.. (3or 4 exp a year at 50$ a pop? 150-200$ ? cmon man)
people give away lots of stuff even for some leg to have them nerfed as well,,, same thing.
I just keep getting this feeling that this is more about a couple players with top cards who are worried about there prices,,then the game,,
if the cards were more available then you wouldnt have to worry about "speading them out" and we can just do it ourselves.

 

new player perspective here; im from japan so maybe my english is not that good

Fan faire, harbringers and etc. sure is strong and solid runes in board, the question is, should i acquire those runes?

Of course yes, they should be acquired by newer player by any means, its TCG, everything is trade able, by money or by other in-game valuables. i play Warhammer board game myself for 7ish years (dunno how much money i spent, its overwhelming actually so maybe i play pox so i can 'control' the habit of spending games), some of them of course cost a lot money (its mean i dont care how much it will cost, if i got the $$$ sure as hell i will get all those runes if i want to)

is it OP (fan faire and harbies)? uhh no i think? you can just drown, doom, dispel, cleansing flame, set ablaze, vertical push, banish etc etc etc, in tcg everything should be counterable, if some runes are imbalanced just nerf or rework it.

but, what if the developer wanna make a new set Leg or whatever rarity edition of existing Lim?

uuh.. yay?!? as a newish player this will make me (and other newish players too) glad, i dont care the rest of other players as long as the game is good, ppl will start to play again somehow, if ppl start to stop playing because of 'their precious one' become common, dont blame the developer, blame the player itself; you wanna make profit? dude just make profit in other marketplace in other games, as a gaming trader you should be able to adapt and be creative for sake of profit.

the point is, just relax and play the Bane Shift out of the game, in the end of the day developers will be the stakeholder.

dont make us, as the players, take the blame of falling of our beloved pox, let us take the 'blame' for better and stronger pox by being positive with any changes, hey at least our devs is listening to playerbase and play the game itself (im sorry i have so much hatred towards games work****)