PoxNora imProvement Projects #1

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, May 12, 2015.

  1. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    Oh nice, I don't have the costs for stats so that's pretty handy.

    And you wish she didn't exist because you like efficient sh..tuff. :p
     
  2. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    It's just guess work. Sok said it was some sort of logarithmic, and 10*ln(HP) is the quickest fit to what's out there right now.
     
  3. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    Yea I'm actually watching some videos to remember these things, I only passed calculus cause my teacher really liked me.
     
  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    So, Collection of Souls... here are some numbers:

    Stats
    • DMG: -4n
    • SPD: +0n
    • RNG: +2n
    • DEF: +0n
    • HP: +3n
    • Total for stats: +1n
    Abilities (defaults)
    • Inspire: +5n
    • Hex 2: +7n
    • Attack Disease: -2n
    • Flight: +6n
    • Soul Linked: +10n
    • Soul Siphon: +20n
    • Total for abilities: +46
    • Grand total: 47 nora
    Which suggests a manual modifier of about 35 nora. 35. That is a lot of nora. The champ's design is a mess, but could it maybe not be a horrifically over-costed mess?
     
  5. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    It feels to me that the Soul Siphon era( when Collection of Soulds, Soulthirster, Soulbleeder and Imp Vixen were pretty strong) left a trauma on some people. This is the problem with unlimited potential abilities, finding a balanced cost for them is nearly impossible.

    Just imagine if collection didn't have any modifiers, it would be 2x auto in your BG. I see little ways of making such runes playable without being broken, since they rely on a mechanic(death) that always happens in every game, and can easily be exploited.

    The accurate costing would be the answer of this question: How much should a champion that can reach 100 hp and high damage( imagine this thing with vendetta) cost?

    I think it is possible to make a raw statistical calculation, if we base it on how long it takes for a champion with Soul Siphon to reach 100 hp - and how much damage those champions would have in average when it happened - to then find(discuss, compare, guess, divine lol) a value to such damage and HP increase, considering the time it took to happen.

    Of course in the end such approach would demand cost modifiers on each champion with Soul Siphon, because those numbers will certainly be different for each champion with the ability.

    But yea, that's the only fair way I see to treat these champions without changing Soul Siphon.

    Edit: My idea to change Soul Siphon would be making it give the champion +1 damage and +5 HP for each enemy champion currently on cooldown. It wouldn't be nearly as powerful, but the champions with it wouldn't depend solely on it to be competitive. Of course there's the issue of losing HP and damae when cooldowns wore off, but I'm always open to better ideas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
  6. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    It would be freakin' nuts in any BG, because Soul Linked is actually really strong and also hard to cost.

    Apparently about 20 nora more than a champion that can't do those things. Do you think Soul Siphon needs a cost increase in general? Unfortunately for the ability, it gets better the cheaper the associated champion, which makes costing especially tricky. It also supplies a variable amount of damage -- another thing that makes costing hard. Heck, even the DMG stat isn't currently interacted with SPD or RNG! So yes, the champion has all sorts of potential problems, in no small part because of Soul Siphon and its fundamental design.

    But it's also unusable trash because of a +35 modifier, and that's what this thread is about.
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Mod for Collection of Souls is at 10 currently.

    Base stats have a cost of 24. Base abilities is 36.

    That said, honestly, at these sort of stats and kit, cost is not viably a formula driven thing anyway.
     
  8. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Oh shoot, yeah, HP should cost ~30, not 3, missed the decimal when doing the calc. Sorry. Wow that reformulation of HP was really brutal to low-life units.
     
  9. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    Having 20 base hp costs a champ 30 nora? ;o
     
  10. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Yup. That's what you get for using ln(HP).

    1 HP costs 0 nora, 2 HP costs 7 nora, 5 HP costs 16 nora, 100 HP costs 46 nora.

    The formula mostly works well for values between 35 and 70, though.
     
  11. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    low hp champs gettin rekt
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Actually, as I said, his base stats costs a total of 24 nora. So no, 20 HP isn't 30 nora.

    Reducing Collection of Souls to 0 HP base reduces cost by 16 nora.

    5 HP is 4 nora, 10 HP is 9 nora and 15 HP is 13 nora.

    But as I said, these types of champions can't really be costed by the formula, so it really doesn't matter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Sok's fallen for the trap, we gleaned useful data about the costing formula.

    Courtesy of wolfram alpha, here's the new best guess for HP: 8ln(hp)-9
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
    iPox and Bellagion like this.
  14. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    Is it REALLY necessary for minotaur sentry to be able to constantly deploy dimension door?
    I mean his cost is already pretty low. Just like NC Priestess he could only deploy it once? That would balance out the very OP travel system for minos imo
     
    Tweek516 likes this.

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