PoxNora imProvement Projects #1

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, May 12, 2015.

  1. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    either change spell blockade to become better or give him spell counter and death charge 2
     
  2. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I'd run Magister at 40 nora without Blockade, maybe. Tiny little undead dwarf with a top hat? Sign me up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  3. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!


    I had totally forgotten that Dragonflight included Flying, so removing it would be problematic. Not to mention that one of my favorite moves was deploying the Beacon and then next turn making use of the Skywing/Dragonflight racial to deploy Broodqueen with 2 AP - enough to Invigorate the Patrol right away. So I wouldn't wanna remove that.

    Also, I realized that Reinforcement works well on Patrol not due to his combat stats, but because it gets to drop the Beacon 1 turn sooner. Because of this, the ability has a similar role on Patrol as Relic Guardian and Relocate: Relic, as relic based synergy, moreso than being a combat ability. So it makes sense to move it to that upgrade line.

    Unfortunately, this means that I haven't been able to figure out how to reduce the cost without adding a drawback ability.


    This is the revised build:


    Champion Stats:
    DMG: 8 | SPD: 6 | RNG: 3-4 | DEF: 0 | HP: 44

    Champion Abilities:
    -Attack: Gun;
    -Drop Beacon;
    -Dragonflight;

    Champion Upgrade Path I:
    -Cripple;
    -Sunder 1;
    -Illuminate.

    Champion Upgrade Path II:
    -Relocate: Relic;
    -Relic Guardian;
    -Reinforcement 1.


    The champion would've been 85 nora at its most expensive with this version. Assuming the change from min rng 2 to min rng 3 drops 3 nora, and giving up the 1 base def drops another 2 nora, it would be 80 at its most expensive. I could see it maybe at 76 with 8 base dmg or 78 with 9 base dmg (on the most expensive build), and 73 at its cheapest. Which just leaves it with the need for a 3-4 nora drawback ability added on base.


    If anyone else wants to chime in, please do so. Maybe I missed something, maybe there's a better approach?
     
  4. Garr123

    Garr123 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    After the NKD nerf, my ferren deck seems even more ass than it was before.
     
  5. drathys

    drathys I need me some PIE!

    yes I for one certainly would. I always have felt that the issue with summons is hp. I don't mind if they can hit me for reasonable dmg or have knockback,chill etc but when i can't one round them its extremely annoying.
    or alternative is crap spd. always found imp summoner an example of good summon (although she is over efficient for her dmg) because the imp only has 3 spd so impact is extremely low.
    [p.s. i feel summoner should probably have her dmg reduced slightly]
     
  6. Garr123

    Garr123 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Yo, I recall some rumbling about removing disease auras from Zombies. Just wanna mention that its one of the few ways they have to deal with supertanks, especially phys resistant ones. If they lose some auras, they need some other stuff to deal with tanks that roll over a theme full of low damage physical champs.
     
  7. Karmavore

    Karmavore MEDIUMALLTIME

    Yeah this was partially my fault. karmavore for worst kfer of all time!
     
    mw24 likes this.
  8. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    we must burn kf to cleanse it.
     
  9. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    What is the modifier on Prodigy? Shouldnt her stat cost be like 50ish before her 30 nora worth of abilities?
     
  10. nakaruru

    nakaruru Devotee of the Blood Owl

  11. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    But, but, but, stat/abilities cost calculator is good as is!
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yep, a simple formula simply cannot handle all types of permutations on runes. I have never pretended that it can and have always advocated for using modifiers to manually evaluate runes. This was how it worked when Corpse was in charge, when I was in charge, etc. Corpse just happened to be looser with the costing than I was.

    Note: RNG 3-8 alone is around 50 nora.

    The formula isn't a new concept, and neither is manual costing. Just because the formula is good enough to get a baseline for the majority of champions doesn't mean that everything will be perfect out of the box. I don't know why I have to keep repeating this and people continue to pretend that we claim the formula is foolproof.
     
  13. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    You shouldnt be responding to every post I make, most of them are too trollish to be taken seriously.
    When I mean business I wont be making jokes.
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    But if I don't respond you start @Sokolov ing me =p hehe

    Seriously tho, I really don't decide to respond based on whether it's you or not anyway. Your response just happened to fit in with what I was already saying in this case.
     
    Pedeguerra likes this.
  15. Andralexis

    Andralexis I need me some PIE!

    Which year is it? Sok back in Pox, Jurassic Park in theaters, Zendikar in M:tG again?
     
  16. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    We the fs players have discussed at length with Sokolov some ideas for a salaman racial. Here are the links to the fs threads that have addressed this topic. Please share your input. To summarize the racial would be technology based like provision and have lore connections to SL.
    http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/the-salamans-revolution.12213/
    http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/salamans-yes.16232/#post-213839
     
    Leadrz likes this.
  17. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Remove Stunning Sweep from the game, and replace it with Stun. It's on one unit, Bonecrusher, and the two abilities are identical except that Sweep pays an extra 9 nora (150% more) to replicate the effect onto other units adjacent to the target.
     
  18. GlaurunGod

    GlaurunGod Member

    I finally read through this. But I think one of the really important things about this game is that you can't simply apply a formula to every champ. Not hating on the formula method, I actually like the idea of relating every stat to a baseline cost. The only problem is, say we achieved the perfect formula for all abilities. At this point we would lose variability. Say I wanted a long range champ, I would have a bunch of options of champs that are similarly costed and do similar things. One of the most important things in the game is rune efficiency. What makes some champs more efficient than others is a large part of this game.

    I like the formula, but I think it should be more of a guideline or an example to stick closely to, not followed exactly. Im glad someone brought up the draksar mariner actually. I think he is a good example of rune balance. I know some will disagree here. He is a basic melee unit for very cheap, making him efficient. However, he is not an auto include in a ff sl bg or draksar and I don't consider him to be OP. Thus he makes a well rounded champ. Sometimes what makes a unit good is how efficient they are. The problem is when you have a rune that is TOO efficient, shows up in every bg and is blatantly too strong compared to the rest. At this point you nerf it or tone it down. Some champs SHOULD be more efficient than others. Like heroes. Like Dirge used to be. He used to be very cheap for his stats. Thats partly what made him so good. His efficiency. But he was unique so you only had to worry about him once.

    Efficiency isn't bad, over-efficiency is, which can be argued over all day long. But if you ask me, a certain level of efficiency is ok, or else we'd all just run the runes that look the coolest. To the players that know this game forward and back, I think you'll find that their opinion on where that perfect balance in champ costing is, is pretty close. For example the colossal boa. I'm sure most experienced players will tell you it is TOO efficient. There are a lot of ways to go about fixing him. But if I were to glance at him and his abilities, he is good because he is an efficient tank. Don't get me wrong, I think he is above the curve, I would just go about nerfing him in a way that he remains playable. For example, costing him at 76-78 nora. He would still be efficient and fill his role, and still very playable. Sandstalker Dustdevil is an example of the opposite. He isn't played because he isn't worth it. Maybe according to a formula he is. You can equate things to a formula, but I don't think it should be strictly followed. I think lots of champs simply have to be looked through and determined if they are runnable, why or why not, and what role they fill or would fill. I don't necessarily think we should leave ALL of it up to an ability pricing calculator.

    (again not hating on the formula, I just think it should be more like a guideline than a standard)
     
  19. Garr123

    Garr123 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Anything to be done to make Garu viable? I've really been trying to get them to work, but they feel like a pile of turds compared to a lot of themes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  20. Fentum

    Fentum I need me some PIE!

    Just started to use SP after eight years.

    Is there any chance that some sort of icon can show the remaining HP on a champ that has been swallowed whole? It's a minor, annoying number to have to remember when most 'countdowns' are now on the UI.
     

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