Racist republicans

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by super71, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

  2. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    That doesn’t fit the narrative, mod that please delete the thread.
  3. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I never understood where Republicans being racist ever came from lol, literally every piece of history points to the other side. Jim crow laws, segregation, slavery, kkk, I don't get it. Somehow maga hats are racist, despite the other side having the racist history, boggles the mind.

    It will be deleted, or it will be edited, as most of my posts are by sokobro when I prove him wrong. Pence though, and the maga hat wearing teens..... Why is this never talked about by liberals and democrats though, this isn't the first racist thing, or the last.

    The news media is pretty hush hush on this though, surprise surprise.
  4. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Again, I am no Republican or Democrat voter, I simply read history books, and didn't try and change history like some people involved in politics do.
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I have never deleted nor edited your posts, @super71. In fact, I don't think I've ever edited ANYONE else's posts... do I even have access to do that? lol

    Please don't spread falsehoods.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Also, this is literally on the front page of CNN:


    Here is WAPO:

    Why are you trying to claim it's "hush hush?" Two of the most hated liberal outlets have it plastered all over their front page.

    Why do you insist on lying constantly when it's so easy to prove that you are lying? I really don't understand you. Do you have so little integrity or faith in your positions that you must lie to bulwark yourself?
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
    Geressen likes this.
  7. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Seems a lot quieter than if it had been judge Kavanaugh

    Sok the only liar/distributor of fake news is you and always has been, you are quite possibly one of the best manipulators i've ever seen. It is very hush hush compared to when Kavanaugh was accused of something thirty years ago with 0 proof, where as this guy admitted to it and their is photographic evidence. Let me guess, the Republicans are still racist right ?

    Also why do you only pay attention to the hush hush stuff, didn't care to visit history when it pertains to your political party ?

    Divert, deflect, divert yada yada yada, same old same old.
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I don't have a political party. I can't even vote in the US, remember? I am CANADIAN.

    I mostly just post to correct misinformation and highlight infringements on civil liberties.

    Also, at what point have we ever talked about the history of the politic parties in the US? When has it ever come up in our conversations? You seem to be accusing me of something that I couldn't possibly have done because we have never had such conversations.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Also, I would love for you to show me some examples of where I shared "fake news."
  10. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Last I heard you said you live in California, you also identify with everything liberal or democratic, and I distinctly remember you identifying as a centrist liberal or something multiple times.
  11. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Again, deflect, divert, deflect, divert it's almost like you don't want to talk about the racist past of Democrats while constantly jumping on the bandwagon of all Republicans are racists. The truth is you fight this because you know if you accept they are not all racist, you would be forced to wonder if Trump really is a racist or not. Tough pill to swallow.
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I currently live in AZ. But I am not American and I cannot vote here.

    "Centrist Liberal" LOL. Wow, you've got me pegged all wrong. I am way farther left than that (though the left-right spectrum is kind of dumb). The Democrats in the US are appalling centrists to me.

    If I identity as anything, it's Geolibertarianism. It's a form of left libertarianism. I am so far left even I don't think what I want is possible for humanity.

    I do not have any stake in the Democratic Party of the United States.

    Now, it's true that most of the time my positions align more with them than with the Republicans but that's mostly because of the TWO parties in the US, they are more on the left.

    But there's no history here. I don't identify as a Democrat.

    I just came to America, observed politics, and saw the misinformation that is rampant here and tried to put facts to the rhetoric.
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    How is it a deflection to directly ask you to prove your accusation?

    I really don't understand where this is coming from. When have I ever claimed that "all Republicans are racists" or denied that Democrats have a racist past?
  14. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Geolibertarianism- Explain, I could use google, but i'd prefer it from your perspective as everyone's is different.

    If Democrats are centrists, how far left of that are you, and why do you agree with most of the Democrats ideas/mob mentality ?
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Ok, I feel like you are actually trying to talk to me like another human being, so I will indulge your questions. It'd be nice if you could answer some of my questions/comments sometimes instead of just deflecting to a snarky comment or an attack on me like you always seem to.

    I have explained it here before, but sure.

    It's basically the belief that common resources (land, air, etc.) are the property of all humans, and shouldn't be necessarily be permanently privately owned. You can own BUILDINGs, and it's not an abolishment of private property in general, but if you extract value from natural resources, you need to pay the rest of us back.

    Of course, in reality this is almost impossible implement so it's really a pipedream, but the general types of policies I support are things like asking corporations to clean up any damage they do to the environment, etc.

    I am not sure exactly. As I said, I don't think the left-right spectrum is very good at categorizing these things. I am pretty far socialist in terms of what I think is best for humanity as a whole, but I also don't believe most of what I envision is possible at this stage of human development (both societally/culturally nor technologically). In fact, I am not sure humans will ever get to that point. We may just be too lazy/selfish and always need the incentives of a profit/market driven model.

    Note that I am generally a supporter of free markets when it makes sense - and it does make sense in most common use cases, just not certain things like healthcare where the particulars don't fit well with what is needed for a market to function efficiently.

    I support positions when I feel like the facts support it. For example, I supported border security initiatives under Obama because it made sense at the time (and the data has shown that it seems to have been effective). I don't support what Trump is doing in regards to the same thing because I don't think his plan (or more accurately, lack of one) makes sense.
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Oh, also to clarify a bit more on the Geolibertarianism thing.

    It's an acknowledgement that capitalism and markets are efficient at a lot of things, including providing incentives to people and distributing resources efficiently in many cases.

    But it is ALSO an acknowledgement that capitalism does not handle externalities well and often leads to behaviors/situations that limit the potential liberty of humans, particularly those that are young or not yet born.

    So it's a compromise.

    The philosophy is one where we want to ensure that humanity maximizes liberty over the long-term by protecting the one thing we all share - the resources on this planet - while respecting private property and allowing the free market to do its work.


    Also, for another perspective for how I feel, some of it is informed by the fact that I was born in Hong Kong - which is simultaneously a lightly regulated business haven, but also one where the government owns much of the land and is therefore able to bring in revenue from property rather than from taxes.

    You can read about some perspectives on Hong Kong by Geolibertarians here in a recent reddit thread:
  17. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    1) I see and that makes sense, how would you pay people back for such things, and do you believe the government owns such things, or corporations ? I always thought it was sort of silly that we pay for water, natural gas, yet they are natural resources. I agree with corporations cleaning up after themselves, I think it's sad what corporations do in parts of the world, and the state they leave things in. You frequently hear about children born with certain diseases related to lead poisoning and the like.

    2) What would you perfect vision be then, what would you change ? We agree that most things aren't possible with humanity in it's current state, people are too busy fighting over trivial things like politics, race, gender. This is largely in part why I believe in the whole fake news mantra, everyday the media divides people by race, sex, and religion, people are less likely to sit and talk, and would rather get emotional and throw common sense to the wind, that is my big problem with most liberals and democrats.

    3) I supported Obama on border control also, however like you listed elsewhere people coming across the border illegally went down, but more and more people started overstaying on visas and the like under Obama. I would prefer the border be totally shored up with a wall, their are certain parts that aren't covered and certain parts that have no wall at all. Do I think a wall is a permanent solution or the only solution, no I don't, but I recognize it makes the borer patrol agents jobs easier and their was talk of putting sensors and cameras on the walls on top of hiring more border patrol agents.

  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    The concept is known as a land value tax, described here by Adam Smith:

    “Both ground-rents and the ordinary rent of land are a species of revenue which the owner, in many cases, enjoys without any care or attention of his own. Though a part of this revenue should be taken from him in order to defray the expenses of the state, no discouragement will thereby be given to any sort of industry. The annual produce of the land and labor of the society, the real wealth and revenue of the great body of the people, might be the same after such a tax as before. Ground-rents and the ordinary rent of land are, therefore, perhaps, the species of revenue which can best bear to have a peculiar tax imposed upon them. Ground-rents seem, in this respect, a more proper subject of peculiar taxation than even the ordinary rent of land. The ordinary rent of land is, in many cases, owing partly at least to the attention and good management of the landlord. A very heavy tax might discourage too much this attention and good management.


    Nothing can be more reasonable than that a fund which owes its existence to the good government of the state should be taxed peculiarly, or should contribute something more than the greater part of other funds, towards the support of that government.”

    Unlike property tax, LVT is a tax on the LAND, not on capital improvements on the land. If you build a factory on it, the value of that factory is not taxed - because it's your's. But the land itself has a value and THAT is taxed.

    The basis for this is that land supply is fixed. We don't get more land (easily). And the value is created by the community around that land, and not necessarily by the owner.

    So in order to support common things like pollution cleanup, national defense, and infrastructure such as roads - the most logical place to tax is LAND VALUE.

    It has some practical benefits too such as being harder to evade - you can't exactly hide your land like you can your income. It also reduces speculation as owners of vacant land must still pay land value tax on it and is incentivized to put it to work via capital improvements (which are not taxed).

    Some Geolibs believe that the LVT can potentially replace all other taxes if implemented correctly.

    Anyway, it's complicated, but also simpler than the tax schemes that are in place in most countries.

    I want humanity to reach a point where we no longer need money. That we want to pursue things because it fulfills us. We want to better ourselves and each other, not for profit or personal gain, but for everyone.

    Yea, it's cheesy, and I don't think we'll get there, but one can dream.

    The reality is that if you think about it, so much of our "production" is simply to deal with the bullshit of other people. If we could just GET ALONG we could focus more on ACTUAL productive work that benefits us all. The tax prep industry is tens of billions of dollars a year... imagine if we didn't need that and all that productivity could go to something USEFUL or FULFILLING.

    In the short-term I will probably end up just buying a bunch of land with like-minded people and form a commune where internally we are self sustaining and don't need money. We'll still need money to deal with the outside world, but at least we can have a bit of a heaven in our own space :)

    You honestly don't see that the right does the same thing? Or you, for that matter? Look at your post history here and see how most of them are attacking liberals/democrats. Aren't you part of the problem here?

    Yea, so why aren't we talking about that? Why is it the "border crisis" when the issue has clearly moved beyond the Mexican border? At the very least if a person claims to be concerned about illegal immigration they should be concerned about rising VISA overstays, but all I hear is "wall wall wall."
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  19. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    1) If you were to tax land value, would the property tax be removed, or would you have both, and the land tax would be fixed and never changing ? My problem with taxes is everyone just should pay a flat tax rate based on your income, and based on the number of people in your household. The only people that understand the current tax laws are tax lawyers, and politicians. Most laws in general are overly complex and need changed back to a more simplistic view, something that normal everyday people can understand and that lawyer's can't circumvent using loopholes.

    2) It's funny you said that about no longer needing money, I frequently joke about going back to a trading system, you help me paint my house, i'll help you hang the drywall. Money is of no value to me, I understand it's necessity in today's society, but it's not even as valuable as the trees we use to make it in my opinion. Things like gold, money, silver, diamonds, these are all things that only have a value that we gave them.

    I also like the idea of having a well, growing my own food, and either solar panels or a windmill for energy, but that would be difficult.

    3) I don't think conservatives divide people on race, sex or religion, no. I don't try to either, but to be labeled a racist, sexist, etc everyday for having different viewpoints is dumb, this often leads to the right fighting back which took quite a while, and only really started with Trump. Trump didn't really just attack democrats though, he went at everyone and that's part of why I like him.

    Most of my posts aren't attacking liberals or democrats, but pointing out the flaws and the way they think, Kavanaugh, the maga hat wearing kids, everyone being a racist etc. we keep painting these groups with one brush instead of acknowledging that everyone has different views, however it seems that liberals more often than not follow the same hive mind and believe in guilty before evidence is even presented, whereas conservatives just kinda do their own thing. Their was no evidence on Kavanaugh, their is still no evidence on Trump's collusion, and the evidence on the maga kids turned out everyone else in the video was racist but the maga kids.

    Democrats and liberals seem to think if you scream loud enough and long enough eventually you will get your way, sure this isn't all of them, but letting the loudest ones scream all the time, paints democrats and liberals in a negative light. The same could be said for Trump, but he seems to be a rare case for conservatives, as I don't see many conservatives get their feelings involved unless it's the extreme religious groups.

    4) Their is still an issue at the border though, as that's where a lot of guns, drugs, and child trafficking, and crime are happening. With the wall and the extra border patrol agents, then we could stop worrying about the border as much and start diverting our attention to work visas and such.
  20. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    If he was repub you’d see title saying “GOP Gov” or “Trump supporting Gov”. For this guy it’s just Gov, and you gotta really search for the word Democrat in the article.

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