Re-costing Update

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Gedden, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    I think some of the expensive outliers should have been rebalanced according to the new algorithm, instead of being recosted.
     
  2. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Mosharn under 80, but Hraken will still probably see more play.
     
  3. avichaif

    avichaif Devotee of the Blood Owl

    why?
    Cleave or Hold the Line and Sentinel and Providence r really good
     
  4. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Leoss are short on ranged, right?
     
  5. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    How does the ability cripple see a reduced duration while abilities like Weary who do the same thing essentially just to different stat points, retain their old duration? I say it's time to level the playing field once again.
     
  6. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    Yeah, lets nerf weary. It's been a powerhouse for too long!
     
  7. vipoid

    vipoid I need me some PIE!

    Well, Cripple does seem a little better. Lowering an enemy's defence may be useful if you're attacking them with multiple champions. Exactly how useful seems up for debate - it's certainly not something I've ever paid much attention to.

    Weary... ugh. Never, in a single game, have I uttered the words "Well, that champion is causing me a lot of problems - if only I could inflict a slight reduction to its damage over a period of 10 turns, I'd be saved!"

    Basically, there are always more eloquent, easier, more efficient, more effective and/or faster ways to deal with a troublesome champion.

    I don't even see it as a useful bonus - if I'm attacking a champion, it's because I want it dead now - not in 10 turns time.
     
  8. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    They are. The Mosharn and Hracken decks have slightly different compositions and play style. Mosharn can effectively board wipe with a gale/mobility/gflux and strip powerturn. Hracken is a bit more subtle, but has sustained single target kill potential without power turning.

    So I'd not recommend running Hracken just because Leoss are short on ranged. He's not going to change that very much, I'd run him if you like the way he changes the play of the Leoss deck more than Momo.
     
  9. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Are you serious? Every dmg point is vital in a Pox where everything has had a damage reduction (well... most things...)
    I just played a game where IS Grintmaws had 6 defense and at least 11-12 dmg, AT LEAST, and I was incredibly outmatched (and overpriced compared to them).
    How can I play against that? Plus, abilities like Rock Defiance are way too powerful in the long run.
     
  10. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    What were you playing?
     
  11. BroWatchThis

    BroWatchThis Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Look, all I'm saying is that some champions have to have some type of vulnerability or they are almost unkillable. What I was playing is irrelevant honestly.
     
  12. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    Lightning Elemental.
    97 nora for what he used to be, pre-revamp -- only he also lost Evasive, Death Nova, and Mobility. Basically, he's half as good as the old version (the one only some people ran, and even then, only in theme), for more nora than Grimlic.

    Let me reiterate: he is more expensive than Grimlic.

    Please give him Mobility back. Please reduce his cost. He isn't even worth 80 nora in his current form, let alone 97.
     
  13. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    -5 nora
    range to 1-3 or 1-4
     
  14. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    You would pay 92 nora for him, then?

    No way. I mean, that would be better... of course it would be... however... I don't know what costing algorithm DOG is using, but if it puts Ancestral Avenger at 84 nora and Grimlic at 94 nora, but Lightning Elemental at 97 nora, then it's borked. He's only good with his maxed upgrades, but even then, he doesn't have Mobility, which is a huge part of what he was, pre-revamp -- it was a staple in his repertoire.
     
  15. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    I'd pay 86 for it.... i wouldnt take the ll 3 aura if he was able to attack in mele range. I think what really hurts his price tbh is electricity eater, which comes to use about 1/6 of all games id say. If something could be done with that i bet we could see a good cost decrease.
     
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  16. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    Oddly enough, Electricity Eater costs less than Immunity: Electricity. :?

    At any rate...
    -Eater
    +Mobility (Eater and Mobility are same cost)
    +base DMG (10/11 would be awesome)
    -5 nora
    I'd run that. And yeah, if it had 1-3 range, then I wouldn't need/want Mobility. But Eater still has to go if it's a 4-nora sandbag (and it is). Without Mobility or melee potential, it's unrunnable.

    I really don't know how to algorithm arrived at its cost for this guy. I'm looking at everything else... even other Bolt champs, and I just don't get it.

    PS: If Static Aura were swapped out for Storm Acolyte, I don't know that I would choose it over Deflect, but it would be a really hard choice. I wouldn't complain about the flexibility, that's for sure.
     
  17. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    On Lightning Elemental
    I agree, Acolyte is a more consistent healing source and a cheaper one at that too. Eater is situational and investment-related, and it increases LEle's price tag like its a White Friday.

    Take into account the fact that he's quite inefficient without Ol'Sok, so thats another premium package we're paying when we play that guy. His damage output is so miniscule without ol'sok when you compare it to the lotsa 60-75nora efficient champs.

    On the Costing Methodology
    Need to adjust a situational recosting... you can't just give a guy evasive 3 (+7 nora to the price tag) when he already has block 1 with the same cost adjustment as you would to champs WITHOUT block 1. So you should set your "algorithm", I do hope its based on excel that way its much simpler. Just put in something like (excel-equivalent)...
    =IF (Keyword_A=1, "True", "False"), you do it for every similar keyword (say Block 1, Block 2, Reflexes 1-3, CA: Melee, etc), and then finally you do another IF function, highlight everything and for each keyword that is "True", there would be a premium to that Evasive 3. So in essence, a Fist of Bastion with Reflexes 3, Block 2, would pay WAY more for Evasive 3, than a Moga Zealot having Evasive 3.

    On Expensive Champs and Non-consistency
    1. Fix cycle champs, Chaos Brave lost Quest: Kill Enemy (while every other ones still have it), Berckhani + Torien + Anaru + Korsien + Malandur + Zedin needs their Secure Font back and recosted. And inconsistency in their part because Zedin, Malandur is very racial-centric whereas Berckhani, Torien, Korsien, and Mika is splashable. The fact that Zedin, Malandur can contribute 1) secure fonts, and 2) racial buff, they should be costed with a premium.

    2. I want to ask about SP heroes. As you can see, Klub can potentially be 69 nora, Sciean 75 nora, Dirge 70 nora. If the algorithm says so, its blindly obvious that SP heroes' powerlevel are way below other heroes. (which I've debated for almost forever). The "Hero" ability -15 nora compensates its high stats, so they look undercosted. However, when you talk about their individual functions, Dirge and Klub (other than super base stats) feels like normal champs. None of the heroes are crutch heroes like Mena, Grimlic, Juya, Serkan who basically shoots someone with the same amount of damage (if not more), from half across the map. This tells something about the fact that we do need something to compensate it.

    All three SP heroes are melee 1-2 with pseudo range (except Sciean), no defenses other than high HP high DEF (regen Mena, heal Juya, deception Grimlic, teleport Serkan), and they all have the EXACT SAME ATTACK TYPE: Physical. A simple treefolk's blessings would already be problematic for all three heroes.

    In no way I'm rooting for a 75nora Sciean. I believe with Hero -15 nora, he should be at around 80ish but below 90. But, I do like to see varieties when we're talking about heroes. They should offer flexible roles. Like how Mena does everything: heals friendly champs, heals himself, nova for close range, superb range, damage is considered high, also an alt damage. or Juya: heals, single-target abilities, superb damage. The SP heroes at its state, is so bland and boring. Only Sciean is more exciting than others because of its powerturn. A consume-centric Klub is awkward. Dirge is meh,, strong, but boring.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
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  18. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    RedScarlet, you speak all the truth.
     
  19. ofsleep

    ofsleep The King of Potatoes

    Anyone else incredibly disappointed with Jyx's current state?
    Less nora is cool...but it used to be exciting to deploy him. Now...not so much.

    Also, I really don't like Rapid Attack. Please give us the option to pick something different. /beg

    Sorry to be so negative...I've said it before but I'll say it again, you guys are doing a GREAT JOB!! Keep it up!
    Oh yeah, Kanen Crone losing Escalation made me cry myself to sleep. Oh, woe is me!
     
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  20. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I also dont like Rapid Attack, so you are not alone there.
     
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