Redesign Bane Shift

Discussion in 'Underdepths' started by Ralphen, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. Ralphen

    Ralphen I need me some PIE!

    Due to the fact that this is actually the only Cleanse option avaiable as a spell in UD, we can find a way to bring it back to ranked helping in the redesign. Personally I come up with this solution, that should be quite easy to implement due to the fact that it just recycles the effect of Relieve.


    BANE SHIFT
    Nora: 35
    Effect: "Target champion gains all the negative conditions of the nearest champion for a maximum of 4 turns and that champion is Cleansed".


    This version works in the classical UD style and need proper positioning to shift conditions in the right way (enemy/enemy, enemy/friendly, friendly/friendly); it also need to account for spell presence and spell immunity to transfer enemy-friendly. Moreover, the maximum duration clausole should prevent the old trick with E4E or Possession.


    I see a lot of potential for it and 35 nora seems appropriate in comparison with things like Herbal Antidote (AoE Cleanse+Heal+Small Buff), the omnipresent Cleansing Emerald (AoE cleanse, CAura and contesting option) or Soul Reaver (Cleanse + Purified + AoE debuff).

    @Sokolov your opinion?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
    nepyonisdead likes this.
  2. IronStylus

    IronStylus I need me some PIE!

    Try harder, lol
     
  3. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    I disagree. It's more or less spot relieve which is something I can see as thematic in UD.
     
  4. Theoutcast

    Theoutcast Member

    Wouldnt be used much....
     
  5. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    I actually find this a brilliant solution and sokolov should definitely take this into consideration

    I however would ideally like a solo champ spot cleanse with the negative effect acted on the same champ too

    Like give him short lived or lose 7 hp per turn etc etc

    But ralphens idea again is very nice and balanced maybe make the spell 30 Nora :)
     
  6. Fentum

    Fentum I need me some PIE!

    That looks way too powerful. Like a super cleanse.

    Do you mean 'target FRIENDLY champion gains...,
     
    Tweek516 likes this.
  7. Theoutcast

    Theoutcast Member

    I just don't get it..why does everything UD in peoples mind have to be crap? I think most of you miss the point....For example: Lets take ST cleansing storm..Cleanses everything for X amount of nora....So you have COST and WHAT THAT COST GETS YOU...UD typical cost more comes from negative effects rather than NORA...This doesnt mean they can't have good things...It just means that for example....lets say Cleansing storm cost 40 nora....for UD it would cost 20 nora and each unit loses 5 HP and you call it blood letting or something.....NOT ...it costs 40 nora and every unit gets short lived...That doesnt make Firking sense.
     
  8. Theoutcast

    Theoutcast Member

    My point is..just because a champ/spell is UD..doesnt mean it has to suck more than if another faction gets it...just means there are different types of costs. Most people don't understand this and want it to cost high nora and a negative effect.
     
  9. Theoutcast

    Theoutcast Member

    Otherwise its..hey play this faction with a bunch of Bane Shift spells and champions that are like all the other factions in terms of cost and what not..but everyone has a negative attached to it...DOESNT MAKE SENSE
     
  10. Ralphen

    Ralphen I need me some PIE!

    I meant exactly what I wrote. Castable on friendly/foe and switch condition on whoever is the nearest champion avaiable. Pure support "is not ud style"... "support with tricks" is!
     
    nepyonisdead likes this.
  11. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Different things are worth different amounts depending on the favtion they are in - I believe ud should have to pay more than St fir cleanse (if they should even get it)
     
    SPiEkY likes this.
  12. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    Sir that makes no sense what so ever

    Fixed abilities have fixed costs like detection and dictate....
    You will say that cleanse is not an ability but my first statement shows you that certain aspects share the cost across all factions

    Now UD NEEDS cleanse whether u think we need it or not and having to pay >40 Nora for cleanse in a faction with over 75 Nora average champ cost is just asking for an angry reply from UD players.
     
  13. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I don't really mean abilities, I mean spells and champion roles - you can't directly compare spells in a vacuum, you have to consider the faction they are in.

    if UD gets cleanse, they should pay more for it than factions like ST, the same way some facrions have better aoes than others.
     
  14. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    So u want UD TO have a 50 Nora cleansing spell?
    And you think that's realistic and fair do you?
     
  15. Pixyrus

    Pixyrus Forum Royalty

    Or what if Bane Shift target cleansed, the closest enemy gains the debuffs for 2 turns, and then next turn the original target gains the conditions back for the respective duration.
     
  16. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    If it was a spell that had the exact same description as cleansing storm, probably about 50n yeah.

    But I don't think the extra price should be Nora, it should cost hp or shrine Hp or something
     
    SPiEkY likes this.
  17. Fentum

    Fentum I need me some PIE!

    Check out FLAGELLATION new rune idea on that forum.
     
    Tweek516 likes this.
  18. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    how about:

    Target champion gains cleansing flame for 1 turn. 40n
     
  19. nepyonisdead

    nepyonisdead I need me some PIE!

    Again mate it's just too unrealistic

    Here is the deal if u wanna give a cleanse option that puts you down 40 Nora 3 ap and 10 hp ppl will just not use it because it's literally insane Nora wise in a proper ranked game

    Now if you make it 25 or 30 we can begin to see a solution
     
  20. Ralphen

    Ralphen I need me some PIE!

    Personally, I'm no more on the ship named "faction X is better at Y than faction Z"... and that ship sailed long time ago with all the other things about faction identities. Just lets be real: faction are actually defined by their themes and rune pool, not by the ability or inability of do something better than the others. UD is no better at melee than ST or SL but, during 10 years of development, it get a lot more support and options for a melee-rushy play-style: not sure if good of bad, but UD players like the things to be in that way...

    Due to the game evolution, each faction will get its holes covered in a way or another; it's only a matter of time. SP got CAura, IS got CFlame, Erode went from 35 (40?) nora to 30 (the same as demolish). And, considering that the costing formula for champions don't account for the faction where the unit is in, so why should an (hypotetical) spell costing formula.
     
    nepyonisdead likes this.

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