we were discussing this in our guild chat yesterday figured i'd bring it up here to see what others think. so the point of the discussion was the effect reforge and to a lesser degree loot has on equipment, essentially any equipment you run can and likely will be turned against you for less nora then you spent to deploy it, this would be like if seism destroyed the relic(not damage) but then gave them a free banner as well. I believe the reforge fits into a similar role as seism, except no equipment is immune to it, and theirs no way to play around it, if reforge had a clause of it only works on equipment that costs 25 nora or less then my personal feelings about it would be better. second the cost of reforge more so then loot is incredibly low, it's essentially 25 nora for a shatter(30 nora)+a processing collar(25 nora) with the option to use it on your own champs for a beneficial effect unlike shatter. keep in mind almost every FF ud deck would consider shatter a near 1x auto include already. i'm not really trying to get it nerfed but if that happened cool, I didn't lose to it recently or anything like that, the whole discussion came up when a guildy said he wanted to put an equipment in his deck and I simply said it's completely useless if you face fs or sl and that's not to say anything about the other factions ways to deal with equips.
loot isnt as much of a problem since the equips to justify it are fairly limited : horn of order or the possess whip but i absolutely agree with reforge and the changes to only on 20 nora is good enough for me
Actually, if it ever comes to reforge getting a clause i think it would be more interesting if its about the equipped champ's cost instead of the equips cost which limits it too much. like "Target equipped champ with a nora cost of 75 or less"
Yeah reforge is probably my most hated rune in the game. Short CD, very low nora cost, basically shatter effect but better. It's such a mindless spell to use. It means that you cannot play equips vs SL unless they have an immediate effect. I'm surprised it's still in the state that it's in with Soks recent pushes towards more defensive equips that don't change the board straight away. I would find it far more interesting if it kept a low nora cost (maybe keep the discount thing or change it w/e), but switched the equips. So casting it on an enemy champion would equip that champ with dragonclaw, and it would equip a friendly champion with entropic clasp. Clasp may be a little too strong but you could change the equips or something. This would give it far more depth. You have to decide if it's worth it to switch the equips, how vital it is you shatter your champ/the enemy champ etc. Reforge would definitely still be viable and very strong after this change. But it means you have to avctually think about it, rather than brainlessly dragging and dropping.
St doesn't have a shield spell anymore, it now goves ca1 and spell res Would of been a nice thought i suppose though
Loot is also "balanced" by the fact that it doesn't work on negative effects. So if you're running loot you aren't running corrode to get rid of say 2x lasher helms etc. since you can't run both (you could but why would you). Also @Sokolov can the FS clause on corrode be removed please?
I do not play SL and I find the brain drop spell to be fine. There does need to be a fear of running an equip BG. In ST Crystal yeti had restricting AOE 4 and it was nerfed due to crying that I can not run a equip BG. Which was not true as no one really ran the yeti. At the time META league was pro equips due to wanting to run provision salamanders. Yeti got nerfed....and then......later on equips and salamanders got nerfed. So complain about this and it will prolly get nerfed and then equips will become op again as their is no fear of this spell anymore. I do recognize your proposed nerf change, but in the end reforge will not be feared. Maybe propose stronger spell warding or spell counters instead as a thought.
is that why they nerfed restratining arua? I had assumed they did it because of some unknown bug or some thing that i was unaware of while i was gone.
I talked in great depth about why hard spot counters are one of the most toxic elements in the game currently. Worth a necro to continue the discussion.
it's really not a hard counter any more then cleanse is a hard counter to debuffes or blockade is a hard counter to ap gain. You kill the unit and it goes away, those types of counters can be found in numerous examples among every faction and againsy every theme. It is a counter but a deck needs to deal with those counters like everyone else and equips imo are nothing special to be an exception to that and i see it like counters such as ice eaters against an ice amp deck, you just kill the unit that has it but expect to have a hard time.
Pretty sure dice is talking about Reforge, not Restricting specifically. That said, I don't believe he so much "talked in great depth" about hard counters so much as list a bunch of stuff he doesn't like and claim they are all hard counters. ~ Restricting Luminescence was removed due to bugs with the way it interacted with Nora Gem abilities (it was basically not always restricting properly, and sometimes only one player would be restricted). Note that Restrict is still an ability that is on multiple champions (that one doesn't seem to have any issues, perhaps due to not being added/removed constantly). ~ As for Reforge, yes, I do believe it's better than it has a right to be, I have hit several other SL spells in the past, some of which were even better than Reforge for this slot which is why you are seeing Reforge a lot more now. That said, I will also be tapping Reforge a bit.
I've said it too many times, hard counters encourage draw wins, and like some globals remove tactics and positioning from the game. Evasive = good design, arrow eater = bad.
I do not see a problem with arrow eater. It has been around forever and you overcome it by spells or melee. Take away arrow eater and KF gets a huge buff as their is no fear of running an all ranged BG. If arrow eater goes away then why does IS still have righteous deflection? That will get a modify somehow and now range units have a global buff and are a hard counter melee units. The exact game mechanics that you are against will exist. Some of these nerf requests are making the game become to elementary. Try to come up with better counters or buffs to balance out a certain mechanics. Maybe more champs could get pilfer and throw equips. Reforge my champ, fine I will throw entropic clasp back on to your champ.
