Probably been discussed previously, sorry if I'm asking silly questions. I've never really researched this topic until I accidently came across Dalai Lama's view on the current problem with immigration. Now I've just watched this video Is it really true? Anyone been to any of the places where the "refugees" come? Haven't got time yet to go into it deep, plus this issue doesn't really concern Russia (we have our own migrant issue actually); but maybe that's a matter of time.
I thought Russia had a press freedom corrupt repressive goverment problem, tell me more about Russia's migrant problem? I can get into refugees later but cant watch vid right now so won't know what it is about.
The facts are probably true in that video, atleast what ive seen in swedish news or experienced myself. hopefully the swedish borders gets closed again, so we can deport back the 80-90.000 that has been told to leave, get some control over the situation again atleast some cities have started to prosecute the refugees that has been proven lying to get them to pay back some of the money they stole from the system by lying, it will of course fail, but just by starting the process they automatically gets flaged to not get more social welfare. its silly when swedish taxpayers sends millions yearly to ISIS (and co) because people that has got welfare here goes down there to do whatever they are doing and keep getting the welfare. or refugees that goes back home on vacations but still demand and get welfare here... absurd if you can go back to your country in vacation, you aint a refugee. oh no i got into these discussions again tried to avoid them because the facts are so onesided and the politics/MSM are so judgemental against the facts and those that point at the numbers. atleast now the MSM in sweden are really trying to seperate refugees from migrants in the discussions, and talk about sending back up to 96% of the people that has claimed asylum here because they aint refugees in anyway. But thats not possible, atm we got around 60.000 from afganistan that has been denyed asylum, problem is afganistan dont except them. so we cant deport them "back" because we cant prove they are from there really... we did struck some kind of deal with marocco so they would accept 800 people, of the thousands that has come from there, sweden and germany are building houses for these people in marocco and paying the costs for them for a few years. so far sweden have deported 23 to marocco, only 1 did stay there other 22 did go to other countries in north africa, and if i did understand right around 777 did just disappear into other countries in europe of those 800. or they are hiding somewhere else in sweden. so no wonder marocco dont want to take people that aint from their country. So far it looks better, will probably take a few years but Sweden is learning slowly from Norway and hopefully this idiotic behaviour never happends again and we dont get into these type of problems we have had the last years. and the amount of crimes slowly goes back down when people get more stabilized into the country instead of being clustered up into NoGo Zones. We just get more and more of these silly nogozones, please fire the police or the politians if the police dont dare enter areas without backup... i would guess that the 300k+ people that has arrived will stay here, even if 98% of them are illegal migrants instead of refugees, because we cant send them back because their countries dont accept them since they are lying about where they are from and we cant prove it.
ok so 4 seconds in and I am already wowed by the fact that any of you thought the refugees coming by boat through north africa are mostly Syrians. this is not a fact that was hidden, ya'll just ignorant. will update as video progresses. a lot of bullshit about human trafficking being a taxi service. true aid agencies should not cooperate with the criminals but africans being exploited and put on a boat with little food and water and way too many people is no joke either. smugglers taking advantage of aid agencies and aid agencies cooperating is bad and should be stopped. always complaining about Soros. the ISIS thing is clearly bullshit. Palermo seems to have 2 mayors with wildly different views I think the guy in the vid is quoting not the mayor but the north Italian singer. migrants are mostly starting over in a different country this puts them at the bottom of the social ladder so them being more involved in crime is a problem but a difficult one to solve or to blame fully on their migrant status. the cafe scene is weird and I wonder where it took place, ( ah wait a city-suburb of Paris)it is obviously a problem, however he is taking a lot of sources out of context and not sourcing them, just flashing headlines. he might be correct that the nordic and southern countries are handling migrants badly though. I am quite certain of this. the Paris suburbs are a decades old problem with managing migrants and can be similarly seen in Belgium especially pertaining to Molenwijk and its problems. the Isis phone people being let through is an obvious error in the system. the main point and problem this guy has here is that apparently in some countries media is using the word "refugee crisis" when truly it is a "migrant crisis" and that the actual facts are misrepresented. this might be true but it was not true for my country. okay now it devolved into insane ranting again "leftist hate europe and western vallues!" seems to disagree that a partial fix is to spread the load of refugees so they don't all end up in france and scandinavia. incentivizing staying in home countries/ dissuading economic migrants is sane again. oh no now he wants to ally with corrupt north african goverments that do not have the ability to stop migrants though I admire his willingness to try and bring stability to these places. more populistic right wing doomsaying "national suicide" and such. seems like he is finishing up now. IN CLOSING he is a bit of a whiny **** but some of the points he makes about the policies needed are solid. I think we can all agree on; the dissuasion of economic migrants and the lets call it sanctity of reugee status and that working with criminal people smugglers is bad. he is a fearmonger though and I think we could get a lot more done if instead of bashing everyone left of his centrist-right political beliefs every few minutes he sourced his quotes and didn't just flash headlines out of context and calmly laid out arguments in favour of the policies I think we can all agree on. especially my knowledge and sources making either the mayor of Palermo two-face, taking his words out of context, or him quoting a completely different person is quite jarring. overall 4/10 wouldn't vote into power.
Well we (EU) already have contracts with Turkey that they shall close their borders so that we dont get so many migrants into europe from that direction so many are turning to other ways into europe. Cant really see the problem, if they want to come, let them in, here is a house to buy it costs 500k euro, oh you dont have it? wtf are you doing here then? remove social welfare for all that hasnt payed taxes in the country for X number of years unless you are born in it, like Japan. No with a massive increase of humans on this planet that is coming the next 30years we need to get either massive walls or just remove social welfare. Especially since the number of people working in the world will decrease drastically. Seen reports that atm technology could replace around 50% of swedish workforce already, and we need to get ready to have a huge unemployment in the future. Thats a much more interesting question though, if Amazon gets their massive investment into food working with their Amazon go project, there will be no people working in stores in a few years. so how are the government gonna get taxes if no one works? why aint there taxes on computers, robots when they are doing the same work as a human or 1000 humans? .-)
the problem you are overlooking is that the problem in the world is infrastructure not supply, and you are falsely asuming that because some jobs are replaced others will not develop. also the stupid wall thing. we need to start terraforming in order to gain those technologies for future space projects, I would propose we start working on turning the sahara from a rock and sand desert into something more verdant. I would start by selecting plants that can break up the rock but will also keep the soil in place as we improve it further, combine it with plants that can survive in salty conditions so we can use seawater for starters. I would then move on to build a small seed multiplication station powered by a nearby solar farm, the solar panels will have to be on raised stilts or racks anyway and this will provide half shade to plants, put some of those condensation pillars amongst them to provide fresher water. north africa once supplied all of the mediterranean with grain, and wth effort it can do so again. Jobs and food and CO2 being made into O2 and the C out of the atmos and back into solid.
hmm iam not asuming anything, its just the reports and TED talks ive seen about what people think will happen in the next 20-30years. And that the state has a massive challenge in how to get taxes with less actually working. The founder of Alibaba said that he/they belive the ones that work will work around 16hrs / week before 2050, thats about 4hrs/day 4 times a week. Maybe they are right, a generation (or 2) ago people did work 14-16hrs/day 6-7days a week, and now we are down to 36-40hrs/week, so maybe next generation will work less because they dont need to. Infrastructure is a major problem, and the amount of "dead sea/land area" are also problem, its not like we are actually trying to stop the deserts spread in the world. so a few billions more of people with less land that are actually producing the food. The "experts" can be wrong, maybe the population will not keep increasing so crazy fast as they calculate in the reports that was published a day or 2 ago from UN. But sure in theory we can sustain so many more humans if we just count calories / person, but the human body needs more then just calories to be healthy. and then we have all these rich/greedy persons that will grab (or own) 90% of the total share
yes. the problem is unbridled capitalism. still less work hours does not have to mean worse for everyone. there is a shortage of people in a lot of fields, education, medicine, tech-jobs. it is more likely to be a shift not a decline. but people will need time to adjust.
Bridled capitalism. ... ... this was implied. Your question was not well thought out or at least badly framed in conjunction with the quote. If you are going to leave the goal/door to these kinds of sarcastic answers open you are going to get these kinds of sarcastic answers, them's the rules. and I have a culture of people that will back up that me making that sarcastic answer was the right thing to do. for a real nswer I am going to say socio-capitalism.
Venezuela has a great system of government and economics called socialism, maybe we should try that. Seems to be working great for them.
Could maybe work, but with corporations bigger and more powerful then countries its not gonna happen. And i dont think its only Amazon that shift focus from tech to food, (hmm shift is a wrong word but...) i guess it will be worse fast, big companies getting more and more power and paying almost zero taxes because they move around from country to country plundering like they always have and always will. Bridled capitalism, is that what Trump is doing with his forcing companies to invest in his country so he gets some type of taxes from these megacorps? or China with forcing Tesla to build factories in china if they want to sell Tesla cars in China.
they have socialist dictatorship/regime backed up by oil money and a massive corruption drain which fell apart when oil prices fell because the US is trying to get shale oil and the middle east turned up production to try and make those developments not worth the effort by flooding the market as a result the corrupt, the rich, and the corporation jumped ship with all the money when the situation became unstable but yes if you take away every piece of context I guess you could try and blame an incredibly broad range of politics under the umbrella of socialism. and use that to try and claim social programs and healthcare never work in a underhanded and shady way. well done Baskit you get a cookie. not quite what I meant. I propose we limmit how big and powerfull corporations can become not that we turn the country over to them or to try and strong arm companies into making financial decisions in favour of a place through threats.
Yeah i live in a socialistic country, voted against it my entire life. Seeing so many people abuse the system here in Sweden, make me really belive in other systems, people are too lazy and greedy to have socialism.
I normally avoid coming around here and stating opinions because at the end of the day, we have experienced very different realities, and indeed to you, what is going on in my country might be construed as socialism. But besides a few social programs, the overstating of the pursuit for that general direction on the goverment's part has been nothing but a masquerade to continue draining the country for what is left of it. It is a totalitarian goverment that tries to pass what they deem 'socialist' policies to get things done. And that is probably why your immediate reaction is to think everything that goes in Venezuela is the byproduct of socialism, after all, this isn't the first goverment that has done any of the above under the same circumstances leading to disastrous outcomes. However, it is a little dismissive to think that's all there is to it. I don't blame you, though, for seeing it the way you do nor think that the fact you see things this way is wrong in its entirity (probably for different reasons), but again, that's where perspectives come in hand I suppose.
so this thing:http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/ven/ says 88% of venezuelan export is oil. and then that is not counting the oil byproducts. i'll jus quoe the whole thing, though the visualisation tab is nice given this situation and the push for cheap oil to put shale and green development out of business by the middle east ( at lest untill they get done selling their oil) how would you think the situation could be changed? surely you all knew oil would not last forever?
Well, ask a simple question, get a snarky response. Aha. Leftist I'm guessing. Bridled capitalism, and socio capitalism. Definitely. How do these imaginary systems work. I'm guessing there will be diversity training. Perhaps some forcing of one class to pay for another. Emphasis on equality of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity? I would guess you are rather young. "but yes if you take away every piece of context I guess you could try and blame an incredibly broad range of politics under the umbrella of socialism. and use that to try and claim social programs and healthcare never work in a underhanded and shady way." Insert all the context you want, but social programs and healthcare havent worked. I love the classic leftist bit of adding "shady and underhanded" when facts inconveniently hurt your agenda. The problem with any kind of socialism, is it's stealing, and stealing is wrong. "not quite what I meant. I propose we limmit how big and powerfull corporations can become not that we turn the country overto them or to try and strong arm companies into making financial decisions in favour of a place through threats." Limit how big companies can be? Who sets these limits? Elected officials? A beurecratic agency with hundreds of thousands of employees? If you can name one single service, agency, or business that has gotten better with more government involvement I'd like you to share it. I can only speak for American issues, so seriously, if you know of one, share, by all means. On the subject of Venezuela, you have taken some truths and mashed them into some weird interpretation to fit into your narrative. I really enjoy talking about these issues with friends and coworkers civilly. When you answer my first question with an arrogant, mildly pissy response, that gets us to a rough start.
The problem is socialism don't work with humans. We are to greedy, lazy and ego. I know nothing about Venezuela, reading some now and it was ranked fourth place in terms of per capita GDP worldwide in the 50's, going from that to what we read about today or watch on tv is very scary. If i did get it right it changed from military controlled in year 1958 to democratic / socialistic, so in less of 60years with socialism it has fallen so far down. and they still get 95% of their exports from oil. But @JellyBerry thats exactly what socialism are, masquerade of the idea of that we humans rather share everything then own. which is not how most humans work. If you have a powerful leader (like Russia got), then the masquerade can keep going, now there are different levels of socialism etc, maybe somewhere someone will find one that works No i hope for technocracy, no more political or religious ruling, get the best economics, military, layers, medicals, technicians governing the country. I had a small faint hope Trump would be something like that, then i heard him speak
