Royal Geomancer Suggestions.

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Markoth, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Royal Geomancer (Cost 78-80 after changes)
    • Damage to 10 from 8 (+? Nora)
    • Raise cost of Shockwave to 20 from 12 (+8 Nora)
    • Lower initial blast damage to 5 from 10
    • CD of Shockwave to 5 from 4
    • Remove Swap 3 from base (-6 Nora)
    • Add Tunnel: Rock 1 (Not earth. Rock) to base (+2 Nora)
    Gravity Flux
    • AoE lowered to 4 from 5
    The changes would lower the damage of Shockwave against a fewer number of champions while also decreasing his mobility significantly. Lowering the AoE on Gravity flux will make it much more difficult to hit a large number of targets.
    Alternate Geomancer (Cost 75-76)
    • Damage to 10 from 8
    • Lower secondary blast to 5 (Hitting 5 targets would deal 25 damage instead of 50)
    • Tremor added to base (+8 Nora)
    • Swap 3 removed from base (-6 Nora)
    • Tunnel: Earth 1 added to base (+2 Nora)
    Cuts his effective shockwave damage in half on big blasts but gives him more utility outside just shockwaving stuff.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Seems like over-nerfing to me. He was never a -significant- problem when his nora cost was higher. Trick decks typically have 1 focus, with the plan of getting the trick to work. Success means a game winning combo, failing means your whole battle plan has gone to waste, and with the entirety of your bg set up for that trick, is now useless. Excessively high chance to lose.

    • Raise cost of Shockwave to 20 from 12 (+8 Nora)
    • CD of Shockwave to 5 from 4.
    • Shockwave now beings the game on CD.
    Note. Something could also be done to Swap 3 in addition. Just a thought.

    Should be enough to limit his potential. When he was more expensive, you had to literally build your bg around him to get him to work. Now that he is cheaper, he can fit in anywhere with gravity flux as a last ditch effort. Raise Shockwaves cost, and CD, and force him to start the game with it on CD, and he should be fine. Giving you 5 rounds to kill him, and prepare for positing if you can't.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  3. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    The being in CD seem a bit too much for me

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Either we gimp him before his Shockwave, or after it. I personally prefer the insane damage. It comes as a reward for pulling off a rather goofy combo. So instead of touching up the damage, I opted to allow the enemy a guaranteed minimum of 5 rounds for positioning, planning, and attacking his dwarf bum. If they fail to kill him, if they fail to position properly, if they fail to plan ahead, and if I succeed in getting of the combo. Then I think the damage is worth my investment.
    Alternatively; could leave the CD at 4, and still have it begin the game on CD. However; I think we should test the longer one first.

    I like Markoths idea. However I only chose 2 part of his balance suggestion. I added my own suggestion in addition so I would not have to have the other penalties that Markoth suggested. In total. I think that if these were to happen, it would make him more in line with what he should be able to accomplish.
    • Raise cost of Shockwave to 20 from 12 (+8 Nora)
    • CD of Shockwave to 5 from 4.
    • Shockwave now beings the game on CD.
    Note. Something could also be done to Swap 3 in addition. Just a thought.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  5. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    Well honestly, maybe only after his relase people complai about shockwave, which remain unchanged and was the same now, like 3 months ago.

    The problem now is that geomancer is too cheap.
    Pre midterm patch, he was too much overcosted for what he brings to the field, no dmg output (outside shockwave which however youcan see miles away it's coming) low hp and low def.

    I'm not defending him, is out of the line at the moment, but the real issue in my opinion, is the tankyness of him. Calcify can make him tank a lot, and res phy3 too. I will before any change to shockwave to put out these tank abilities and replace them with something else (yeah, idk what) and see what happen. Then if he still remain a problem change shockwave.

    Like other said in many other topics, no one like nerf hammer, which slap thing in the shoebox or the nearby playable level.
    Do thing with steps.

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Oh I completely agree it's his cost that's the issue. His access to calcify does not help the matter like you said. The "Shockwave begins game on CD" was more of a thing I suggested years ago. I think it would allow him to have a reasonable amount of capability, and make him less reliant on Shockwave. I think it would also make the naysayers think a bit more about the rune itself, than Shockwave. Honestly, my suggestion was just in-response to what I thought was an over-nerf from Markoth. I think it less damaging to the rune. It is not a 'I want this' type of thing. It was just a suggestion. I'm always open to hear others.
  7. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    But you will agree that if we simply raise his cost, he would be nearly the same as he was before. Anyway at 80ish and with this stats, abilities he wuold still be playable though

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    I do agree. The reason I suggested other changes is that I am not a fan of cost modifiers. If his cost is raised, then is should be reflected on him. Hence the:
    • Raise cost of Shockwave to 20 from 12 (+8 Nora)
    It would make his base. 84 with a build from 76-86

    Since his new min build is 76. (What would ideally be run in trick decks with the soul purpose of using Shockwave to its maximum potential.)

    • CD of Shockwave to 5 from 4.
    • Shockwave now beings the game on CD.
    I suggested these 2 changes. For that min build. In a bg that is not a trick deck focused on using him; it would have little to no change in his damage output. In a bg with that goal in mind however, it would have a large impact. Please note that I only suggested these if he keep access to his defensive capabilities. As it would give the opponent sometime to kill him, or position if they can't.

    If he loses Blessing of Stone, and Calcify, then I would not care if these extra 2 changes were not implemented. However; chances are that losing Blessing of Stone is not an option. Aside from Shockwave, Blessing of Stone is also his thing.

    Alternative Suggestion.

    Raise cost of Shockwave to 20 from 12 (+8 Nora)
    Remove Calcify from upgrade path 1, and replace with Defense Bonus 2
    Change Resist Physical 3 to Resist Physical 2

    Then we go from here.
  9. Wraith

    Wraith Administrator Octopi

    I think the problem with Geomancer is its a combo that if allowed to happen wins the game on the spot. Good players can play around it, and when it happens probably won't be too mad, but a new player really has no way to reliably respond to the combo and will most likely get destroyed by it. For that reason I think reducing splash damage to 5 is my favorite fix, as it makes it a very powerful AOE but doesn't spot kill 4 champions anymore.

    Just my 5 cents. (remember, I don't have a say in balance, that's Sok's job. This is just an opinion :) ).
    Raxar likes this.
  10. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    A bit tired about this kind of thing. New players get shasmed? They will learn by it. How many times i get a badly lose for something i didn't know, then i learn and make better the next time.
    nico, Dresnar20365988 and IMAGIRL like this.

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    This post implies more than it says, and I agree with all of it.
  12. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    Do you know i always read your nickname as IMA GIRL like IMAGINE GIRL or something similar. Only few days ago i reach the i'm a girl. This for let you understad how poor is my english knowdoledge
    IMAGIRL likes this.
  13. Dresnar20365988

    Dresnar20365988 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Jesus Markoth.

    How many Angles do you want under your belt before enough is enough.

    I've watched you lose games repeatedly simply because you played a Geo.

    Listen. If you reduce the damage from 10 to 5 then why do you need all the other nerfs you propose? Why do you then need a nerf to g flux? An additional nerf by increasing the cost if you cut the damage significantly?

    Let me add since the Geo changes I've played a few games where a Geo was deployed. Not once did my opponent get a shock wave off.

    You have been spamming double Geo games and you haven't been beating people you shouldn't be beating. Also those you have beaten haven't run to the forums to post nerf threads. You're bringing this over nerf request for the Geo plus gflux. How many shoe boxed runes do you want under your belt? You got the angel and now the Geo and g flux? Makes me think you had a hand in the wings theme "buff".
  14. claydude5

    claydude5 The King of Potatoes

    Playing vs someone using Royal geos right now. I hate cheese.
  15. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    I am assuming you are refering to Archangel when you say angel since I was not involved with the recent angel changes.

    Whether you like it or not, Geomancer in its current form is over efficient. Whether you like it or not, Shockwave in its current form is too easy to pull off and bad design . As you say, I use Geomance a lot. I have pulled it off against almost everyone in the top 25 (except those pesky FS players), thus I write down my thoughts on how he should be dealt with so when he gets nerfed (and it is going to happen) he doesnt end up further in the shoebox Than you have your head shoved up your posterior.

    As to your response to my suggestions I would point out that I did not suggest lowering the damage to 5 as my main suggestion. I suggested lowering the initial blast to 5. Hitting 5 targets would deal 45 damage to each instead of the current 50. Considering you likely just won the game I dont think those 5 points of damage will be sorely missed. The primary suggestion only made it more difficult to position the shockwave and appropriately raised his cost. Otherwise he is just as effective.

    The secondary suggestion I made did indeed lower the blast damage to 5 (hitting 5 targets would still deal 30 damage) but made him less of a one trick pony. He can do other cool things like make lava and then tremor people into it (a 22 damage+ lumbering combo for 5ap) and hitting harder than a limp noodle with his autoattacks. It also opens the door for Shockwave potentially having is AP cost lowered to 4 though I doubt it would be necessary.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  16. Dresnar20365988

    Dresnar20365988 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Yeah. The arch angel. Are there so many runes you've put in the shoebox we have to be specific?

    You didn't suggest one thing bro. If you had said, "initial blast to 5" and called it a day then fine. You added to that a cost increase for shockwave, a few other tweeks, the topped it all off with a nerf to G flux!!!! Who's head is up who's posterior exactly?

    You're not wrecking face with geos. I've watched enough of your games lately to see you lose quite a few because u played a Geo and couldn't make the combo happen.

    That is the wonderful thing about the rune. It is a rune that actually provides a come back mechanic in the game. A mechanic that can be avoided by your opponent since it's not a complete no brainer to pull off.

    In short, your suggestions goes to far. Try 1.

    Good day.
  17. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    You have a right to disagree, just please dont disregard the positive changes that were suggested as well. Not each of the bullet points is a negative suggestion. The second suggestion had more "buffs" than nerfs, granted the nerf was a big one.

    My reasoning for Gravity Flux is this. Shockwave is AoE 3. GFlux is AoE 5, everything is pulled 2 spaces inward. It could basically read "AoE 5 everything is now within Shockwave range". Reducing the AoE to 4 gives one extra space of safety to the opponent. Lets be real, AoE 5 is bigger than Ice Storm. Expecting an opponent to space his runes out enough to avoid it is pretty unreasonable.

    That said, if Shockwaves secondary blast is reduced I dont see the need for Gravity Flux to be nerfed. In fact I would fight to keep it from happening.
  18. nico

    nico I need me some PIE!

    over efficient?!!!!! NEFARI SCHEMER ITS POXING OVER EFFICIENT! geo its fun to play, but never was on the "broken" side of combos, and right now isnt

    in flux side, why can we have a GOOD relocate spell? yes afect 5 squares, but only relocate only 2 squares to the TARGET champion, and everybody already know target champ spells can be counter now

    its a fun combo, hard to put in practique but just that, never gonna be on the top of broken combos
  19. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    It's always imag(e) girl when I read it.
  20. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Other factions OP stuff doesnt excuse something from being OP.

    Saying he isnt a problem because he wasnt a problem just after he recieved a buff that gave him a relocate and dropped his cost by 10 is foolish. It isnt the same rune that it was.

    Dont misunderstand me. I think Geo is awesome and has been one of my favorite runes since his release. I want to see him playable and I am psyched he got buff. I doubt you will see nerf threads popping up tomorrow or the next day but they will be coming. The only reason you dont see them already is everyone is distracted by FS, and IS isnt as popular currently as it was.

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