salaman ingenuity+flash bang=broken.

nobody likes perma aoe blind.

 

... How about you don't trigger it, then.

 

great idea. ill use my below average and out of theme FW Detect runes, deploy them mid map, hope i see the half dozen flash bangs out there (because the point of the post was CD4 champ based relics is insane), THEN ill use all the lumbering range i have to destroy the flash bangs.

thanks for the good advice.

 

boo Firking hoo

 

insightful

 

I agree. Nerf Bile Zombie.

 

you for real?

 

CD 2 with 2 is effective permablind, yes.

 

so you are actually comparing 37 nora a turn on a 4 speed body that needs 3 AP to go off and is dependent on your deploy zone, to *free* on a 6 speed body that needs 3 AP to go off and doesnt harm your own champs?

 

Summon Flash Bang is a 15 nora ability. Salaman: Ingenuity Cooldowns is a 6 nora ability. In order to get it activated more than once every 4 rounds you need to pay for equipment or relics. You have to play 1 equipments or relics in order to reduce the cooldown to 1.

As noted detect will point out its presence, and you should have some idea of where it can be based on player movement of the salaman trapper. Most of the time you are going to get maybe one champion with it.

You can play a bile zombie every round for massive damage + blind over a pretty large part of the board. You control when it goes off and have full control over when they do or do not hit your champions.

So yes, I am comparing them.

 

Yes, do that. Everyone else has to run decet to detect things, too, so quit crying.

 

The nora does not compare, as you have shown and you cant say "well i have to play other stuff", as that other stuff delivers affects based on its own nora.

Movement? What happens when there are so many out, your only option is to go backwards or eat it? Which shitty detect champ should i be using?

You can play a bile zombie every round *from your deployment zone*.

This is a super weak comparison that requires you to ignore the negatives of the bile and positives of the flash bang.

 

"everyone else" has a champ with detect that is worth running. But youre missing the problem, and that is of a 4CD 15 HP spammable relic. Detect doesnt magically solve the problem of spam.

 

CD 4 is "spam" nowadays. Ah. And no, FS did not have a good detection champ for a very long time and now has to use an equipment for it, too, unless you are playing boppers and fine with running a subpar champ even in that.

Get good

 

Right. And the bg where you run bile zombie in, your deployment zone ends up being pretty dang huge.

What battlegroup are you running that you are having such a problem with flash bang? The context of what is an appropriate detect depends on a lot of secondary factors. If you are running zombies, send one of your summons to trigger it. If you are playing worms you have the Eye of Serkan to identify it and blow it up.

And there is always an opportunity cost associated with playing these things vs. other things. Though you are correct, these runes also provide some sort of effect, but that effect is not necessarily going to be relevant to the current tactical situation. So you are suddenly forced into a choice. Do I play a bunch of relics and equips (if you even have the nora to spam them) that give me these reduced cooldowns and bonuses that may or may not be relevant for the current tactical situation, or do I play something with a more directly relevant impact (spell) or that provides a long term investment (a champion).

 

for summoned relics, yes. That's great. Now FW's turn.

 

You have similar CDs for champions. So. Uh. Quit crying.

 

Ingenuity is a problem that needs addressing in a sensible way. The problem is that without it, salaman would be poop. A round of salaman buffs alongside ingenuity changed is needed.

 

IMO nerfing and buffing at the same time is always a bad move, because you're skipping stages. No matter how certain you may be about Salamans needing a buff after an Ingenuity nerf, there's no way of knowing how they'll behave without letting them be played for a while before giving them another "unknown" advantage.

 

Point taken and I agree.

My worry is that they'll be ok-ish with an ingenuity nerf and will be left at that.... for a LONG TIME, because they're perceived as having just had attention.