Signature Abilities ( Hero,Leg, Lim)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NiGhtMaRiK, May 22, 2015.

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Should Signature abilities champs are released with stay exclusive or be propagated to other units?

  1. Signatures should stay Exclusive to the champ they were released with

    28.6%
  2. No abilities should be exclusive to any champ

    23.8%
  3. They should be propagated but only to a small group of units

    19.0%
  4. There are already too many abilities. They should be recycled to new units and shoebox buffs

    14.3%
  5. Only Heroes and 150K champs should have Exclusive Signatures.

    14.3%
  6. Doesn't bother me. Indifferent. I don't have an opinion

    19.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!

    Thats another curiosity of mine. Why is it that some abilities have been freely given out. Yet there is a large pool of abilities that only exist on one champ, or two at the most?
    Should these abilities be propagated to be on 4-8 champs, or should just more abilities that are on 1 champ be pushed to be on 3 max?

    Whats the reasoning, if any (possibly this has just been chance in design).
    For an example:

    Im not suggesting that you gave Bloodseeker to someone besides the 150k Leg Korona to slight her.
    I believe it was done because the ability synergized with the Minos kit.

    That said, alot of other abilities could have aswell. Also, there are alot of abilities that could synergize with alot of kits that are currently exclusive.

    Is there any design reason from the Dev standpoint to not proliferate these abilities?
    If not, is this something the community wishes for, or would they rather the current sigs that are on units they didn't originate on to be scaled back (and/or removed completely)?


    I was curious as to the communities thoughts on signature abilities and there proliferation or limitation.


    Possibly my mind is skewed by nostalgia, but i remember when there was a time most Hero units and Lim/Leg's ( even alot of exo's) had signature abilities that were solely for them. Since then, there have been splashing of supposed signature abilities onto other champs.

    Is this something the community would like to see more of, or do you prefer signature abilities stay on the champs they were released with?

    To the Devs, is there a reason why some sig abilities are given out to other units, while some remain exclusive to the origin? Are there any plans to propagate more sig's onto other champs and/or remove current sigs from units that received them?


    Breakdown of current Hero's: (inform of any incorrect assessments)

    UD


    K'lizik:

    -Surge:Arthro 2 ( was the only champ with this on release, since then 1 other champ has recieved Surge 1)
    - Propagate: Spiderling ( Still exclusive. I do think she was the original Propagate champ and is no longer)


    Grimlic:

    I don't think he had a sig at all. He was an amalgamation of good stuff to make a strong champ to rival Mena.
    Maybe Firebomb or Flame nova was new, but i doubt it. Deception was on Elv illusionist i believe aswell.


    Maxx:

    -Dark Summons: Exclusive
    - Maxx Servant: Exclusive
    - Sac Power: Exclusive

    Korona:

    - Bloodseeker: Given to that Minotaur and Angel of Pain. I think thats it.




    IS


    Talgar:

    - Hammer Throw: Mimmicked but still Exclusive.
    - Blessed/Purified: I believe he was the first with these


    Euan:

    - Euans Hammer: Exclusive
    - Consecration: I think someone else has this, but definitely on a relic and spell.


    Bastion:

    - Battle Leader: Pretty sure this was his and then given to Korona and the others.
    - Combo Atk: Dev : I think the Tortun had this before him, i could be mistaken.


    Magnus:

    I know nothing about this person and it seems he's an amalgamation of abilities from good champs, especially in the paladin theme. I don't know who had imposing aura first or if he was released with it. I have no clue what he was released with to discern what his sig was, maybe inquisition?


    SP

    Lance:

    May be another amalgamation of Good abilities. I think Queen had Bulwark first, i think Lift was on someone aswell but that may be his sig. Barrage and Warcry were just good. Not sure if he lost his sig if he had another one.


    Dirge:

    Another amalgamation of good stuff to make a hero. I think on his release he had Pounce. Perhaps that was his sig back then? Not sure how he was changed, we don't have League wiki :p


    Klub:

    -Throw Boulder: Pretty sure this is his sig. Hurlers, Turret Team, Oakthumper now have it aswell.
    Although he had some other abilities aswell on release i believe.


    Shallaxy:

    - Deploy: Rock Trap: Exclusive
    -Gravity Well: Now shared with Prismatic Skywing and Ancient Slag



    SL

    Valdec:

    - Summon: Dragon : Now shared with a Relic
    - Augment Creation: Believe he was the first with this.
    Has also been changed quite a bit from release

    Vindrax:

    -Acid Bomb: I believe he started with this as his sig when it was Breath and since then has been changed and propagated

    Has also been changed since release and i don't recall if he had another sig.


    Vex:

    - Divine Wellspring : Exclusive


    Snogvie:

    - Sonic Greeting: Despite "greetings" existing prior, this was his own. Since been put on "the band"

    I think defensive turtle might have been his alone for awhile aswell? He's also been changed quite a bit.



    FS

    Kartch:

    I think another amalgamation of good stats and abilities to forge a hero. Has been changed tremendously from his release. Prior he had Poison 3 and i think was the only one.


    Slick:

    - Dreadwing Potion: Since has been removed and streamlined to metamorph

    I believe he also debuted hit and run, but i could be wrong. Been changed quite a bit aswell.


    Gekaal:

    - One with Nora: Since been put on that horse and that mummy. I think thats it.
    - Nora Incarnate: Exclusive


    Sixul:

    I know very little about this champion. I know he use to have ping. Not sure what else was removed from him and if so, if it was a sig. It seems he's just an amalgamation of good abilities.



    KF

    Mena:

    I have no clue. I feel like he definitely had a sig. But it probably got removed or propogated. All of his abilities are so common now, it's possible he was just another amalgam champ. Heal Mass maybe?


    Fiorn:

    -Heavy Charger : Pretty sure he originate this, has since been put on numerous champs.
    - Horn of Kthir: Now shares with Arrow singer.

    Bliss:

    -Creativity: Exclusive
    -Empathy/ Enlightened: Pretty sure she started these. Now shared with many champs.


    Dugon:

    - Triumphal Roar: Exclusive

    Not sure if and how much he's been changed.




    ST


    Juya:

    - Declare Target: Pretty sure she orignated this.
    - Blockade: Believe this was immediately followed by Thirion to get it, and Frostvein. Not sure if more.
    -Talon Attack: Since removed, was a fancy Stab.

    Not sure if she lost anything else of note.


    Gnark:

    - Surge:Lonx : Pretty sure was his alone. I believe Recruiter had it for a time. Now exclusive again.
    - Swarm: Snowcat: Exclusive
    - Bola Attack: Since removed. Now Entangle and shared with many.


    Azaren:

    - Beast Herder: Now shared with Skeezick and also mimicked with witch.
    - Pet: Tusk: TUSKKKKKK!

    Not sure if anything else. I don't think he's changed much.


    Kento:

    Silent Contemplation: Exclusive

    Not sure if anything else or how she's changed.


    FW

    Xulos:

    Drain: Believe he was the first, now shared with a hanful
    Grace: First, now shared with a few
    Dark Favor: First, now shared with many
    Death Touch: First, Since removed for Death Pact and shared with many
    Mindwipe Aura: First, now removed and given to quite a few others.


    Serkan:

    - Surge: Lich: First and not shared with a handful

    Has been widdled away at quite a bit. Not much remains but i don't think he had any other exclusives.
    He was pretty much an amalgam hero.


    Moragen:

    -Siren Song: Exclusive

    Has also been changed quite a bit, but i don't think anything else was exclusive. If so, it was probably Deafening Aura and Dread.


    Coragh:

    -Double Trouble: Similar abilties existed but this was his own.
    - Brain Eater: Since removed. Was jacked and given to Soul Thirster, who since has also been made undesireable.

    Maybe Bold? But i think that hooded Elf from KF with Dictate had it first.




    Should Hero units have an exclusive ability by nature of their influence/lore?


    There are numerous instances of Exo and higher champs being released with an ability that made them new, unique, and special and since have had that ability pimped out to other units. In some cases those abilities have even been removed from the original champ or just removed from the game.

    There are alot of Common-Rare champs that now have "sig" abilities by happen stance after the revamp.


    Despite the flares in tone, im not saying it should be one way or the other.
    Im curious if the community feels that abilities that are sig on release should stay exclusive to that unit.
    Or possibly does the majority feel that it doesn't matter and they like to see abilities spread out to more obtainable units and also to synergize with other BG's.
    If that is the case, should any abilities be left sacred?

    Thats another curiosity of mine. Why is it that some abilities have been freely given out. Yet there is a large pool of abilities that only exist on one champ, or two at the most?
    Should these abilities be propagated to be on 4-8 champs, or should just more abilities that are on 1 champ be pushed to be on 3 max?

    Whats the reasoning, if any (possibly this has just been chance in design).
    For an example:

    Im not suggesting that you gave Bloodseeker to someone besides the 150k Leg Korona to slight her.
    I believe it was done because the ability synergized with the Minos kit.

    That said, alot of other abilities could have aswell. Also, there are alot of abilities that could synergize with alot of kits that are currently exclusive.

    Is there any design reason from the Dev standpoint to not proliferate these abilities?
    If not, is this something the community wishes for, or would they rather the current sigs that are on units they didn't originate on to be scaled back (and/or removed completely)?
     
  2. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    The decision to limit or distribute a unique ability should be based on three factors. 1. How unique is this signature ability? Are you taking away from the swag that a certain ability gives to said champion or faction? 2. The level of offensive power or defensive support the signature ability impacts on a game. Two examples of signature abilities that should not be thrown around like pinata candy are deep wounds and one with nora. 3. Certain signature abilities have become synonymous with a factions identity. Examples are Set ablaze has always been an UD thing. Distributing abilities associated with a certain faction to every Tom **** and Harry has led players to believe that factions don't have an identity. GemmaXylia created a thread that concerned me dealing with the question "Are factions losing their identity?" Perhaps development should keep in mind that certain abilities need to remain in a certain faction because by doing this faction identity is maintained.
     
  3. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!

    Hmmmm, i thought Elven Illusionist had it first. I wasn't certain though.
    I do remember Euan having Impact Strike. I'll edit that in.


    So DMr, you think unique abilities are a waste of resources:

    - To have ever been made to begin with
    - To be given to other champs because of the cost and balance issues?

    Would you prefer current abilities given to new units only and little to no new abilities?
    Would you prefer the propagation of abilities if they were costed appropriately? Or would that make units too expensive and give access to too much over the top abilities on numerous champs?
     
  4. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    I took option 2, but in my case it should more read "no ability has to be on only one champion"
     
  5. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!

    So prof you bring up that signature abilities aren't necessarily champ exclusive but faction exclusive.

    Deep Wounds has been given out quite a bit already. 4-5 in UD and i think about 2-3 outside. Do witch doctors still get it, if the Exile is in play?
    One with Nora is also given out to two units. Do you think this is fine, or should it of stayed in faction? Or better yet, only on Gekaal?

    Can you further explain your #1 prof.

    When you say unique, do you mean like if the ability is doing something very new and interesting it should be exclusive.
    For instance if Binding Chains Debuted on a Exo/Lim/Leg, it should of stayed exclusive?
     
  6. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!

    @Boozha i worded it that way because im in the school of thought that if one champion lost its exclusive ability, then every champion should have that threat. I don't think any champion's sig should be safe, if they all aren't.
    Just think whatever the design choice is, it should be consistent. Not sure if it is, or not. Just preemptive on my part. If we were to ask for Nora Incarnate on a New Treefolk or Crystal. I wouldn't want the reason we couldn't to be, no thats Gekaals signature ability. Its what makes him Gekaal.
     
  7. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    I think there are two classes of abilities introduced during a release/midterm/legendary period of time. 1. the new "cool" abilities that the developers want to introduce to most factions to change the game over a period of time. Examples of these types this release are dashing maneuver, sapping armor, etc. 2. The other kind of abilities are the crazy game changer abilities you really don't want to toss around. Examples of these are Shockwave, deep wounds, one with nora, and judgement. creating new abilities adds flavor, renews interest, and gives players old and new a reason to buy new runes and try new strategies. Yes I think distribution of abilities is good but take into consideration faction identity, and the power level of signature abilities when developing new runes.
     
  8. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!

  9. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!

    prof, it seems that you want to keep faction specific abilities and "elite club" abilities in check. Which is fair.

    You wouldn't mind Champions who have exclusive abilities, sharing those abilities in the future?

    EX: Ride Down, Take Prisoner, Void Touch, Brand of the Outlaw, Cursed Treasure, Anthomancy, Spell Shift, Bucketheads Revenge
     
  10. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    The choice to distribute unique abilities should be basesd on how powerful their impact is on a game. One with nora and deep wounds were once considered very elite abilities. One with nora was exclusive to Gekaal and Deep wounds was once only to be had on few exotic or legendary champions. Today it is common to see one with nora and deep wounds on rare champions which is shocking to a player like me who has been around for a while. Deep wounds is so powerful because it can stack several times. Judgement was another ability that was being given to a few champions in the past when it was meant to be on JudgeTorien. I think an ability of Judgement's caliber should not be given out to anyone other than the champion it was meant for due to power level and because it helped to reinforce the identity of Judge Torien.
     
  11. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    I dont mind at all. Take Prisoner is associated with "SL" flavor (Enslave) etc. its part of their brand of possession flavor it should remain in SL. It also defined the identity of the Flagellum of Chains. I am sure if there was some other SL priest in the future of Flagellums caliber I could see that future champion learning how to "Take Prisoner". Take prisoner is very powerful and it could be too powerful if given to a faction like FW, because "Essence Drain" etc. I believe in faction identity and in factions having an advantage in certain situations. By giving every faction every thing there becomes no point in there being factions or the need to "split" to create a unique blend because you have thrown your pearls before swine.
     

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