Silverclan Engineer: Shoebox niche rune now;Whats the point if he doesn't do any nora gen.

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Anotherblackman, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    I remember on release I saw this champion and I thought, wow! a unit that makes deck building for IS easy again(on release) His presence in constructs was unmatched as he recycled his nerf list up to what it currently is today.

    On release: OP

    55 nora

    Nora miner 2 upgrade available, recycle available, Equipment had a nora cost.

    Safe to say this guy took the recycle combo and made it mainstream. He was genning nora from the equips from lodestone construct almost every round if you had 2 on the field and with nora miner 2 he was basically a 2 man nora engine that rivaled the old school UD/IS nora gen engine. People started running resonance and nora gen counters alot as they begged for nerfs on him. I was all for them if done correctly to keep the rune in a nice spot. They took out equipment cost on equipment granting champions, relics, and spells.

    After first nerf: toned down but still Overpowered

    Nora miner 2 upgrade still available, recycle still available

    With the fist combo you could gen 30 nora with ease, this combined with the engineers still allowed them to gen massive amounts of nora with nora miner 2 on base

    After second nerf: In a good spot(imo)

    Nora miner reduced to rank 1 nora cost to 52 nora

    With nora miner no longer auto this allowed me to explore his other upgrades, something I had not done before with the simple nora miner presence now gone. I noticed he was one of those units that impacts the game very few ways without his nora gen. The combo still worth it imo, was dropped from my battlegroups cause of the need to run like 5 equipment to make armory worth it( yes the good equips are there too but still its just not my style of play) and with engineer+ armory+fist it takes up alot of rune slots really quick. The combo was mainstream and from the start of the nerfs, he remained genning quite a bit of nora in twos genning 60 nora might seem a bit drastic but the combo needs atleast two rounds of that and lets face it, if you weren't setting it up, it was rushed most of the time by stronger, cheaper battlegroups.

    Most recent nerf: Niche rune, Still a strong support unit in construct battlegroups. Needs nora miner 2 back so he can generate nora again.

    Removed recycle, added shatter

    While Im glad that respectfully allowed him to keep his anti equipment role I am disappointed in his current lackluster form. Now he is just a shoebox rune enjoying his only role in a construct battle group where this silver clan is the only place he will shine. Is has champions that can shatter on hit tank and kill champions. this guys time in meta is over and it will stay that way forever.

    So Added to the list of runes that are terrible niche runes with (dwarven tinkerer, dwarven catapult, siege engine)

    Im waiting on this guy to get nora miner 2 back, till then, IS has once again been nerfed into the shoebox.
    Nora That likes this.
  2. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    Removing recycle from him was basically nailing him to the cross and spitting on him
  3. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    You guys must be high or something, he still brings awesome utility in Aura, anti-equip, Motivate (not to be overlooked), and Nora Miner 1. Oftentimes I will take Grant: Evasive over Nora Miner, which gives him something else to do with his AP in non-Constructs. Let's also not forget that he has Carouse now as well, meaning he can hand out AP if necessary. He's obviously not as good as he was, but the change was justified in order to remove the Fist combo (and don't even try to convince me that the Fist combo didn't bear removing, because it most certainly did).
    RedScarlet likes this.
  4. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    The ONLY future for silverclan engineer is with constructs. This nerf has tied him down with a ball and chain. Carouse?? really.... -_-
  5. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    This was my doing, so many months ago when we (before Alpha left) put this patch together. I'm so excited it finally happened.


    1) he's more balanced and still does the same in strux.
    2) I love making IS fanbois cry and this was an IS fanboi favorite.

    So he's exactly where he was, as far as his intended use is concerned.

    Also, I think you left out that on release he had Coordination instead of Motivate.
    Grand General Mosh likes this.
  6. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    And yes. I smoke on the regular... -_-
  7. Grand General Mosh

    Grand General Mosh Devotee of the Blood Owl

    In this thread, a typical Iajareaction, blowing something out of proportion when a theme rune was so good it was widely used outside of theme. Remember when Robodog was in every IS deck because it had Surge: Dwarf? Yeah. That got fixed, and now it's where it should be, as a Construct Deck's premier ranged unit. Same thing with Silv Eng. He's a construct supporter, so you'll see him most in construct decks, where his potential will shine. Go figure.
    TheNidhogg likes this.
  8. Dresnar20365988

    Dresnar20365988 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I agree. He is in a good place now. I hated seeing him everywhere and those ap lock decks are the worst thing in the world to play against.
    TheNidhogg likes this.
  9. MovnTarget

    MovnTarget Forum Royalty

    Since when does niche rune = shoebox? If its runnable in a very competitive theme at a high level of play doesn't that by definition make it not shoebox?

    Or does shoebox mean I can't run two in every single bg I make? Personally I'd rather a lot more runes get niche-ified and a whole lot less goodstuff mishmash running around.

    As an SLer I can only effectively cite examples I am familiar with.

    Skeezick Herder - Niche rune? Absolutely, about as niche as they come, you won't ever see this guy outside of a beast bg. Shoebox rune? Absolutely not, SL beasts is a very viable deck at the upper tiers of play.

    Beezick - Niche rune? Indeed it is, insex only support rune. Shoebox rune? Oh god yes, not only is a poor rune in its own right, but insex as a theme within SL are in a terrible place.

    I just saw this last part of your post. My word, hyperbole much? So are we to ignore the colossal shoebox buffs that IS got? And should we also ignore the fact that every faction got two runes nerfed as well? If anyone has a right to complain about all of this, it's FS who didn't get any buffs.
    JazzMan1221 likes this.
  10. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    And to be perfectly honest, he's still completely 1-2x meta viable for motivate, shatter, aura, and grant evasive/miner1, cheap 6-speed runner and hp:cost ratio.
  11. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    still very much a 2x auto in constructs and at least a 1x in any meta.
  12. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    So If I don't:

    Have room for a healer and aura granter like Northern cross preistess,
    have space for a troll who can distract and relocate relics out of fonts,
    or don't have space for basically a nora miner
    Don't have a champion with pilfer or shatter, or room for disarm.

    Run this guy instead.
    If you want to have your first line of defense being two engineers that don't gen any nora, run 2 of them in construct
    K got it, now to make a battlegroup that needs these.

    Also on a mega side note,
    Silverclan engineer
    Grant aura
    10 hp for construct ability
    nora miner 1, mason, motivate,grant evasive

    Elven Artisan(KF)
    53 nora
    attack physical:6 damage
    5speed(6 ff)
    nora miner 2
    Shatter, +1 speed, mason 1,2

    And thats in a faction that has a theme with nora shield as a beast racial, and the nora miners have sever summons, detection and 1-3 range and can stealth and are unstoppable.

    I guess Ironfist battlegroups just don't need that extra 3 nora per turn otherwise hes back on the list for IS stuff to be nerfed, who knew knew a 53 nora miner 2 champion would be overpowered in a faction who is left in the dark ages for nora generation.

    I can do this too...

    Silverclan engineer, good in theme, said to be good outside of theme

    Dwarven tinkerer,If I was going to run 1, it would be after 2x of the others engineers(silverclan and boost 3 engineers) make it in the bg first, so that would mean 3-5 champions in constructs that should never be directly in combat if you decided to run her as a boost unit, Lodestone outshines her in amazing proportions. shoebox everywhere else.

    Not a jab or anything with this thought process. Why should a certain rune be limited to a certain battlegroup? Best example I can think of is The mirefolk and thier 18 damage 9 speed berzerker with evasive and aura and why that thing is allowed to just be plainly powerful yet extremely more synergystic in a full mirefolk battlegroup (especially with a champion that grants global impervious, and gives them encouraged and regal presence)

    That is why I bring engineer up in this regard. His play ability in all battlegroups was nerfed peice by peice untill now he is just a former shadow of himself in his main battlegroup, even then all he does is the same things that the other engineers do so whats the point of choosing him over the guy who can shatter and summon, the healer that can grant an aura, or the troll that can motivate.

    And you... go eat a rock hard groble and get pounded by a piledriver before you slander me at the start of your post oh, so great and wise general(self pro-claimed ass)
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  13. Rapidice

    Rapidice I need me some PIE!

    If you still wan't to run a champ like engineer outside constructs, try the guy on my avatar. Poor forgotten Collector
  14. Pico

    Pico I need me some PIE!

    Oh my he has shatter now. RIPieces.

    Guess my IS tortuns are running Ironfist collectors now hehe.
  15. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    It's really going to make you sad, ijabby, when I tell you this: he's still borderline over efficient if not across that line.
    Grand General Mosh likes this.
  16. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    If a KF rune who gens more nora, has more speed and can actually kill a banner from her 13 ap side font contest while genning more nora than him at all times.

    I also guess fist combo is fine on ironfist collector, a guy who is 3 nora cheaper and can stealth...

    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  17. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Let's take a poll, 6 dmg attack and 3 nora per turn or +1 global dmg and grant aura.
  18. TheNidhogg

    TheNidhogg I need me some PIE!

    Better poll: who thinks jabbers is an idiot?
    Grand General Mosh likes this.
  19. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    *raises hand*
    Grand General Mosh likes this.
  20. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    IS is not even close to shoebox...
    Grand General Mosh likes this.

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