@Sokolov We are in need of a boost. I am not asking for a major one, just some tweeks. KF got hit hard, and now, few people play FF KF. We need some consideration in the following. Here is the breakdown of our themes (and some not recognized as themes) Meta - 1.5 tier Elf Meta - 1.5 Vashal - 1.5 De'lim - 1.0 Aurora - 1.5 Beasts - 1.5 Garu - 2.0 Centaurs - 2.5 Archers - 2.5 Fairies - 2.0 Wliderkin - 2.5 Elven Army - 2.0 Here are some problems with our faction little nora gen little power turn little champ debuff (except for spells which can not carry the whole load) moderate champ buffing little melee tanks (outside of Boa) a high nora cost per champ the highest ratio of nora cost to champ quality in the game (this might be a bit presumptuous) I asked for help with themes before, but you keep rejecting them, yet I know you are busy, so I am not ranting. I am merely asking again for you to rethink at least one of these themes for improvement so that we can have at least one more at tier 1.0 (like Garu) and one more at tier 1.5 (like Fairies).
In part you're right. But debuff alone won't work. We need a few more tanks too in at least 2-3 themes.
K'thir doesn't currently have any tier 1 themes in my opinion, also i'm pretty sure someone just made a thread about the k'thir tiers.
Buff = Protectorate Debuff = Wrath lets break what little rpg elements this game has, DEBUFFS ABILITIES FOR EVERYONE!!! Also, Kthir has neat tanks, not many but they are there, nothing to envy to the infamous vothsair ireguard.
This type of thing hasn't been true for years. Everyone's had buffs and debuffs for a long time. Now the lore actually makes that fit pretty well. (circle mages, naria, etc.)
I was just browsing through the rune list having a look at things. KF hasn't had a 7 base speed unit for 5 expansions. Since perfected runner in Bonds Of War - This unit has changed somewhat though as it used to have berserker and now doesn't.. Before that rune it's another 6 expansions back to Condor fury. I would really like to see some statistics for the last say, 10 expansions, but I am not sure how to necessarily find them.. Things like average champion HP in each faction, average champion damage etc. I could entirely be proved wrong, but I would hazard a guess that ST doesn't have the lowest average HP, that UD doesn't have the lowest average dmg, but KF has the lowest average speed. I think its more noticeable in the last 10 expansions where everyone is getting speed 7/8/easy ap accrual across the board.. Speed is the strongest base stat in the game and I don't expect every KF champion to have 9 speed or anything. Just would be nice if we had as much mobility as we used to
Yeah k'thir has got the short end of the speed stick for a while lol, it's getting comical with each expansion coming out with another 8 speeder for other factions with stasis.
This topic comes up now and then, this time I will just point an old thread: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/5-speed-galore.20362/ And no, in the last 10 expansions people haven't been getting 7/8 easy AP accrual across the board. In fact, what access to 8+ AP/movement in general has been significantly nerfed across all factions - the primary remaining ones are things with Stasis and the like. That's why you don't see very many base 7 SPD champs in KF, because 8+ AP on first turn is generally considered taboo for Pox unless it comes with drawbacks. Specifically, KF SPD (post bonus), in general, is on par or slightly faster than average. I have demonstrated this in the past, but don't have the data handy. But that said, it IS considered during the design process because SPD (particularly aerly movement), has a more fine breakpoint than other things, such as "+5 HP" which doesn't immediately create issues.
If you can demonstrate more specifically things that are an issue, I might be able to do something. Stuff like "High nora cost per champ" and "cost to quality" doesn't really help me. If there are specific champs that you can demonstrate are overcosted compared to similar runes in other factions, that'd be helpful (tip: try to keep them within the same rarity/time period for best comparisons). Another thing that seems more helpful than this list would be what you feel the strengths of each faction are, including KF, and why you feel KF's strengths don't match up with those of other factions. Also, I don't remember rejecting your ideas specifically, if you can point me to the threads you made previously wherein I rejected your ideas, that would also be helpful.
http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/what-are-kfs-best-decks-right-now.23458/ it goes into more detail in this thread @Sokolov
I read that thread. It's still pretty generic. What is wrong with Vashal? Why can't they compete? What Vashal champs are overcosted compared to their counterparts? What is wrong with De'lim? Why can't they compete? etc. (Note: "it got nerfed" is not a convincing argument.) I also disagree with the assessment about SPD, KF's SPDs are fine. Also, if the bonus changed to something like... KF champs have +10 HP, and then gave all KF champs +1 SPD at cost, I doubt that'd make anyone happy to have all their champs cost 8 more nora for +10 HP, especially since you can get +10 HP for about 5 nora via the formula.
At the same time, there's been a lot of minor edits to the runes via Hunter: X adjustments, upgrade adjustments, and I have made edits to champs (including KF) based on various other feedback, etc. and the other usual expansion shakeups coming, so perhaps this is best tabled til we can evaluate the state of things then.
Some other leading questions: For specific themes, what would you like to see more of and how do you want them developed? (For example, the Fairy thread was a great help in this way.) What are some bad runes that you'd like to be able to use? Why are they bad (compared to other runes)? Are there KF-focused abilities that are overcosted? For example, Abash is featured prominently in KF, is it worth 6 nora? Would you not rather just have Evasive 2? (For the record, I already recosted this down to 4 nora for next patch during a review). What are some abilities/effects that other factions have (or maybe don't exist) that you'd like to see in KF? Are there non-champion runes in KF that are strictly worse than those in other factions (provide comparisons)?
All of these kinds of things I will be looking at myself, but obviously my eyes are different than your's
What are you talking about? We pointed out several things that were wrong with the faction. The high nora:hp ratio of fae and elves, lack of nora generation, lack of faction identity (considerin we were once known as a spd and range faction at the cost of hp). Xirone has gone into extensive detail about certain themes and so has gorebucket ragarding treefolk/plants. Are you simply going to gloss these over because the issues are not presented in a manner you like? I'm glad you communicate with the players, because i know it is a rare thing in a gaming community, but we are trying to tell you what is wrong to the best of our abilities. Some better than others. Do not assume we are all the same and interpret the data the same. Personally i am not great in formatting a presentable explanation of all the issues, but if thats what it takes for you to hear us out then i'll get to work on it with some of the other kf players. We want the game to be better just like you.
