how about theme him towards helping a crystal bg out? Maybe spatial Dysplasia, Soul Wrack, Fascinate, and grant immortality to elemental champs. Crystals used to have this ability which allowed you to really diversify your BG.
well I had issues keeping her with the mimic style while pushing her into other themes. if we don't mind losing the mimic thing all together i could easily redesign her into a theme like elementals
Mimic, Void, Elementals...Seems like the more it gets revised, Soulpainters flavor holds most true to how it is designed now. I'm not following how Nora Gem or Cores flavor fits into Soulpainter.
true I had no interest in trying to take him away from his mimic fluff thus why I didn't suggest it, but if the majority would prefer that then I don't mind designing a painter themed elemental unit.
Isn't the argument to rework Soulpainter because of it's high Nora cost? Wouldn't the easiest and least amount of work be to move Take Form to U1 and have it replace a rank of Swap or one of the other abilities on U2? Why are you redesigning Soulpainter?
I was just thinking that mimic costs way to much, not as useful as when he granted it, Now you are using a 90 nora champ to clone what? a 70 maybe a 80? More than likely you will not even break even. Giving immortality would be some what like mimic. The again maybe she could mimic abilities and give them to other champs? Maybe the cost would come way down
well two things. the high cost is why take form does not get run, moving it to upgrade does possibly allow it to be runnable but at best it would be over shadowed by the numerous other champs with near identical ranged swap builds with superior designs. Your answer is identical to why it has take form in the first place, and quick and easy answer that doesn't care if the end result is playable or not. At best I suspect it would happen and still nobody would use it but unfortunately I can't say for sure without seeing the final cost
Just playing devil's advocate, I like the rune design but for another rune.Each further release can only potentially increase the value of Take Form, and with the player made expansion coming soon I don't want to be too quick to make any changes. - Jakei Soulpainter sees no to little play - let's design a kit that allows for Soulpainter to be played we both have the same goal, the break is that you want a new kit placed on Soulpainter, rather than a new kit placed on a new rune to better support Soulpainter. The constant is only the flavor and that's enough to make a whole module that supports Soulpainter. I'm not suggesting something like Disciples, but a rune or two in Lonx, Leoss, Jakei, Elemental to better synergize off Soulpainter directly. This makes more sense because any addition to other themes can directly benefit them, Elementals can still be designed for Elementals, but with perhaps a Swap synergy or Psychic ability. It doesn't seem that Soulpainter is being designed to fit into any one theme, Take Form as it is now is able to fit into any theme/role. Again, with the player made expansion and any further release there will only be more potential for Soulpainter. I think it's also in injustice to compare Clay Form and Jakei Soulpainter to each other, they are entirely different runes, if the ability was abusive then that of course would be a discussion on Take Form and then it effects both runes.
I play a lot of Rock Defiance. There are many ways to get Rock Defiance on any unit in the game. Some of these methods are by cloning, and while I'm certainly biased because I play this bg the point I'm trying to prove is that Cloning is it's own theme. We have Split, (un)fortunately we don't have Swarm anymore, regardless Clockwork Swarm is a great way to create multiple copies of a rune. Does it get played? I play it, and it get's talked about, people are aware of this gimmick...my point is Take Form is in the same position. Do people play it? Are players aware of the gimmick? Grimmlic's Mirror is an 80 nora spell that can Copy a Champion, it then goes on CD and can eventually be spammed more. Soulpainter is a unit, that can; Contest, Deal Dmg, Swap, Amp, Gen Nora, and Copy another unit. If the argument is that 'Compared to Grimlic's Mirror the rune is too high costed', then simply reducing the nora cost is the best answer. Reworking the rune is entirely disregarding Soulpainter for what it does, regardless of how it received Take Form. In a game of choice there needs to be choice. If you argue that other runes do the same as Soulpainter for it's STATS that would be your choice and therefore the rune holds it's value within the game. My main point is that Soulpainter works, choosing not to run this rune is one of the reasons why it works; Where you do not see the investment worthwhile, another player may. Hence why this is a player vs player game.
There is no way that take form can be viable on him (outside of an iPox bg). I think you gotta face this truth aseryen
You're defining what is viable and what is not in a game that allows for options and choices based on player choices. Your choice to not play/see the value in any given rune does not mean there is none inherently. If you want a Meta rune I understand that. Just say so instead of trying to say X rune isn't viable because you don't want to play it. That's the argument, unless you can give me some of the decks that you would try to play Soulpainter as is, it's viability is entirely your opinion. I've already acknowledge my bias and that this is all my opinion, but just because players now don't play the rune doesn't mean that what you are claiming is fact. 1. The rune and it's abilities work, there are no bugs with the rune, unless Take Form is used to abuse said bug, in which case that get's handle on the Rune Take Form is copying. 2. PvP, Campaign and Dailies, all allow for varied play styles. 3. There are a wide number of players that are not active on the forums and to say "oh if the rune was changed now, players would only complain about it 6 months later when they want to paly it again." There needs to be some constant within Pox and changing old runes to create new kits does nothing for the game. If new kits need to be implemented then design a new rune. If the rune needs balance, balance, don't mix the two. Post a bg that you would try to run Soulpainter, it could come down that you just don't like copying runes, and that is entirely ok. This just isn't the rune for you to be speaking on then. Ofc if Soulpainter was abusive then by all means complain, but your lack of willingness to play the rune does not equate to it's viability. It especially gets muddied up if you don't want to clone a rune or don't care for the play style, which I think is your problem.
ipox over the course of this game has made dozens to hundreds of bg's that used obscure runes and mechanics to break the game, which in turn always were immediately nerfed but due to the frequency he pulled this off, he's considered the msot creative bg creator in the game. he was terrible at playing the game imo though, but his broken bg's were usually near impossible to beat often destroying the shrine in one round from no runes in play or something that effect. keep in mind he has had this rune available to him for 6 years and even he never found a use for it, ipox didn't use shitty runes for the sake of using shitty runes, he broke the game with any rune he had available to him in ways nobody expected
So because I am not iPox this argument of @calisk and @Tweek516 against @aseryen is 2:1 in favor of an entire redesign, whereas if this was @calisk & @Tweek516 vs @iPox the argument would still be pointless because of the track record of iPox has creating abusive/nerf worthy bgs. I'm still not seeing how the rune is not viable now? Is it not your choice to run Soulpainter, and at what point did your choice to not run Soulpainter supersede my choice to? iforgot Im not iPox...? Do you at least agree that it is your opinion/choice to not run or see the value in Soulpainter as it is now? @calisk @Tweek516
I'm not sure if it's a compliment or more of 'meh you don't matter' by saying only iPox would run Soulpainter as is.
ipox wouldn't use this rune for reasons I mentioned a bit earlier in an edit. ipox doesn't use shitty runes, he breaks the game with runes. this rune cannot do that thus ipox hasn't and wouldn't use it but if in some way it could then yes he would use it, but it would likely immediately be nerfed because that's what ipox decks result in. it has nothing to do with you really, if I used this rune they'd all say i was stupid for using it as well because its a terrible rune an example of an ipox deck is quad backlash + banish to pop shrine one round when possible, or stuff like that
Ahh so it's the latter and that I don't matter. I certainly don't think I'm stupid and unless you're calling me that then I don't understand where this conversation is going. You don't want to play the rune because others would call you stupid for running it, this is a game, play what you want. That being said, it happens to be that the rune you think should not be played is entirely worthless, shoeboxed and of no value to anyone or Pox, it's existence should not be. That opinion, that statement, all of what you have been saying, supports why Soulpainter is a viable runnable and useful rune. You don't play it, someone else can, you oppose them playing the rune, they play it anyway to oppose you. Thus making Opponents... Do you understand how this back and forth only stabilizes it's value, you choose, I choose, someone else chooses, we all choose and that is why Soulpainter is ok. I get you like the art and the Flavor text, but nothing about that makes it unviable or warrants a redesign. I think you'd be better off convincing iPox to run Soulpainter so that it get's changed, that seems to be what you really want to happen.
you are missing the point...but sure if you think this rune is fine as is then I question your experience at the game,if that's what you really want to hear while ignoring everything else. I don't get your logic btw, I simply don't understand the point you are trying to make because they are contradictory and illogical statements.
If you were to say the Nora Cost is too high, I would agree; that is my experience with the game. If you were to say the rune is unviable, does not or will not ever see play I would disagree. You're the one countering yourself when you say it's nora cost is too high, that would just mean a reblance. Then you instead redesign the rune because you think it's kit is unviable, the contradictions come from you. You've already said that'd you wouldn't play the rune because you don't want to look stupid, how would you play Soulpainter, I'm not going to call you stupid for posting an example of how you have played Soulpainter. There are multiple themes with ST, take in to consideration there can be even more with splits, it could be that you have not tried/wanted to play Soulpainter in a different theme, at which point the choice of playing the runes falls with you and any disconnect is because you do not want to play that rune. It's unfortunate not every theme can make use of Souolpainter but that's another issue entirely.
true your meaning for "unviable" is different from everybody elses. anybody can use any rune for any reason, by that definition which seems to be your definition every rune in poxnora is viable because anybody can and likely does use any individual rune for what ever odd reason they feel like when they start out or in single player, or what ever that is not how we define a playable rune. Incorrect you missed the point of what I said and then took a leap in logic. I said if I played the rune I would be called stupid, this was to say that no matter who you are nobody in this game would think playing this rune is a good idea, which was a response to your deflection attempting to saying we were persecuting you based on your skill level or experience, why I don't run the rune though is completley different from that, I in no way give two flying ferrets about what anyone thinks when deciding which runes I wish to use. I don't run this rune because take form would be the only reason to run this champ in it's current form that isn't done better by multiple cheaper and more efficient/better designed runes in the faction.
