I'd actually beg to differ, I've used spell spam to win games that I'd in fact been losing. Whether or not I decided to deploy, I'd still been in a tight spot. But running a Guardian of Eretat in the middle of my opponents then cast 2x Stellar Horizons and a Thorn Collection and an acid storm. It wins games, and is a winning condition. Personally I'm not against the IDEA of spell spam itself, rather, against the strategic property of it. Also @Pedeguerra, don't be assuming "Pox new generation" mate I've beaten your ass so much in the past 9-10 years
Taken from http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php...pirits-beyond-4-2-16.13070/page-9#post-306126 Honestly, losing to lots of spells just sounds like meta-game shifts. Champ counts have been creeping up and up, and games have been going into higher and higher resource states, so of course something with scalar kill power like AoE spells will get better. Build for more aggressive lists, and run fewer champs. Find decks which function well with those two things. I dunno, play UD or something. Or, go the other direction, and play one of the FW variants that worry less about AoE.
I wasn't really thinking of instances like that at all. More to do with the situation rather than the spammer having saved a huge amount of nora. I'm thinking of clops players getting jammed up on maps like Shores of Maljara or getting packed into your font for defensive reasons on the FW map. I keep thinking of a recent game i played against Dirtyflaps (someone's alt i think) who rushed me with just a few units early on and my only choice was to hide in my font until i could match his board. The very next turn he just rushed into my font with a raptor and almost leveled my board with a double Superiority, the situation eventually worked in my favor but I went from being fairly comfortably able to defend myself to having to play like my life depended on it in order to stay in the game. I don't like how a couple of spells can influence a game that much and there is so little way to tell if it's coming or not. Maybe i'm wrong about it being unbalanced and admittedly your arguments have swayed me but i still think it's a witless, anti-fun tactic.
Even in the circumstance that your bg is not designed to stand up against spells but designed with another tactic in mind, not being able to execute that tactic can be due to your composition not your opponents. No matter what you are going to have to stall, I've had some good draws where I was placing units and ending with zero nora but that stops eventually. The player who best capitalizes on his and their opponents inevitable play-styles will win. Draw to win, works when you get the right draws Spellspam, works when you have excess nora to play spells Stalling, works when your opponent plays into it Seems a bit too conditional for me to think that it is actually an issue. Except in the instance where as pointed out, the spells or rune is already unbalanced in design. There is a large following of spell summoners too. I know Blue in MTG is designed to abuse spells, the fact that most factions in Pox have access to that tactic and playstyle is actually a huge compliment to the design of Pox. I think the least amount of champ runes I have been able to get into a bg was 11 in ST with preordained units and a Chrono, a very obvious deck but still I got wins because my opponent didn't realize that lack of units on the board does not mean nora not spent. And the bit about moving/spacing units, yes you should move them if you don't want to die. If you were able to cluster them up this turn, you can next turn. Reason for this is because you clustered up too early and that was your mistake which is pointed out. If your opponent stalls and stalls and stalls and gains nora to do whatever it is they want. You should stall and stall and build your ranks up so you can do whatever it is you want, but when you move in, if you weren't ready to nuke his shrine, why would you think your opponent would fail where you did. Idr who said it but on the old forums there was a post, it explained that you shouldn't play expecting your opponent to do what you want, they have all the info for what your runes can do just the same. If you want them to walk in and contest a font and you give them that extra space to walk in, and your opponent walks in anyway and falls for your trap, it was your opponents fault. I wouldn't be upset if I died to bombs and aoes, that means there is a lot less single target dmg and I know that I need to better space and have a better composition to counter. Being critical on how you compose your deck should be noted after every game not just how your opponent has composed their deck.
I'm not sure why you refuse to cooperate. There's also potentially hidden spells which a person may cast. You can't just assume they definitely have 200 nora.
You're right. The four spells you named total 175 nora. So you let your opponent build up 175 nora, minus whatever he gained from the Thorn Collection, assuming Thorn Collection wasn't cast last.
Spell spam is alright. Even when those ****s playing SL right now spam their bullshit, you can kinda see it coming Either that or rumblers
no to spell limit, i dont meet spell spam much, doesnt really happen in close / even games where you need to deploy to keep mid font. it usually happens in stand off games if they have the runes to do it, the kind of games i hate anyway. i dont spell spam btw usually i take just 2x aoe with both fw and sl. sometimes an extra for fw. i hate spacing out my troops and usually i dont bother too much yet dont get spell spammed hardly ever, the odd spell or two sometimes. i dont play IS either. i agree with burn positioning is part of the game, learn it or lose lol.
If its a problem for you, you can try changing your bg, and including a counter that you can deploy when they start saving nora. Things like backfire in fs, despoil in fw, tainted statue/antimagic field in sl, sexy moga in sp, shield in st, etc.
I disagree that you have to be losing for you to have lost to spell spam. There are many times where it's very hard to position and advance with the threat of spell spam like KF or SL and impossible vs ST. However there is a big risk from saving nora in that the opponent can run you over. There are counters to this like weaken spells, IS, high hp, relics that increase cost of spells, relics that reduce spell damage. With the range nerf on most heroes and the introduction to so many anti range abilities, I don't see this as a problem as before. KF spell spam was also nerfed with the change to thorn collection. Max Ap being nerfed also hurt this strategy for KF. Since coming back I've only spell spammed 2 times in like 50 games or so. The game has always been rush or turtle though you could be a hybrid which is probably the strongest. You are fighting for resrouces or for positioning and that will create skirmishes or standoffs. This will happen in any game like this though.
Spell spam isn't efficient enough to win anymore, back when thorn collection was x2 auto and adaptive bgs were big then it was pretty strong in k'thir.
Whether you overwhelm with champions, spells, relics or equipment... it is all part of the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_concentration "Force concentration is the practice of concentrating a military force so as to bring to bear such overwhelming force against a portion of an enemy force that the disparity between the two forces alone acts as a force multiplier in favour of the concentrated forces." The thing is that this kind of thing isn't limited to spells, and limiting one type of action is not particularly valid unless that particular action is designed to be more powerful than the others from the outset (thus limiting it makes sense, such as in the case of the Avatar).
