Soulcrawler and Rust Demon not playable from Runedock. With latest patch. Albino Katipo Creep and Crawl is an upgrade. Why? Broodmother, not slow enough before? Bloodletter: upgrade 1, Climb or Creep and Crawl. Choices Redundant. CnC should be base. Racials should not need upgrades to be chosen they are what they are. Cinderpede: no Creep and Crawl Demonbarb: Aura hurts swarm mechanics, No CnC Emberwasp no CnC Nightfall: Once again CnC as an upgrade. -_- Lavaflow Devourer no CnC Phase Spider CnC as an upgrade AGAIN, have to unchoose Phase Clensing, completely ignores the whole PHASE - SPIDER Aspect, once again they are who they are, you cant pick and choose. Scorpic no CnC Soulcralwer CnC as an upgrade. AGAIN Trap Spider CnC as an upgrade. Weaver CnC as an upgrade yet again. I don't think you guys get the whole point of racials, They ARE who they ARE, you don't just get to pick and Choose which ones within a race get the racial it defies the point of calling it a Racial. Overall. 4/10 -_- I had hopes for you. Ya let me down. Don't even get me started on the whole Myx issue. Sandlion Really..... EDIT:::: For my Spider Racial issues, I think Group Racias should be treated differently than Racials that effect the champ directly, as group racials when played out of theme will have no direct impact. As you need the "Group for it to activate." If you use a Racial outside of theme, then the nora penalty should be your penalty. Baskitkase made a good point. ↑ Correct. If it was in a line-up where it was definitely the best (given used in a theme) then I think that negative feeling displayed by the OP would be a positive one. "I get access to something the other guy can't have because I'm using this champ in theme." My Response. That is what I am trying to point out. Forgoing a potential upgrade just to play theme as made just seems wrong to me. Phase Spider is both a Ghost and a Spider. The Choice is however, Phase Cleansing or CnC, CnC should be base, and Phase should be the optional upgrade, as CnC would only trigger in BG with enough Spiders to trigger it. There For I do " Get access to something the other guy can't have because I'm using the champ in theme.
What I am hearing is you dont like the idea of an optional theme, you prefer it being always on. Would that be fair to say?
Themes are Fire, Frost Flying (Spiders included) ect. What we are talking about here is not Spiders but the Spider Racial. A Racial is something they always have. Because it is the essence of them. Though the way you phrased it. Yes. please dead god Yes. Don't discriminate when calling it a racial please. KF/SL ect Arthropods should get the same racial. If you don't like or think some might benefit unholy more than others from the same racial then change the racial. Please don't just pick and choose. The Construct racial is Construct Immunities and I see no Discrimination amoungst them? Sorry if this comes off as a Rant, it is important to me.
While having theme abilities at base is certainly a valid approach, the difference between Construct Immunities and Creep and Crawl is the former benefits the champion regardless of whether it is played with other Constructs, while the latter is intended to provide a benefit when played with specific units. Hence why Construct Immunities is not considered a theme ability in the standard parlance of Pox Nora, while Creep and Crawl is.
I guess picking racials would be more applicable in themes where champs have applicability outside of a theme. The Soulcrawler for example, is also played in Phsy decks not sure how the others like phase spider might get played in meta, but I'd say its not likely. None of the others are unless they are so it "feels" like you are paying for your racial.
I agree with Sokolov and with the design decision made here. Racial units are often sandbagged by their racials and thus unsplashable; making the racial an upgrade alleviates that. Actually, I'd like jellebrium mind to go to upgrades on those that still have it base, too ...
Picking into the theme may also feel better if the other options in that set didn't seem as important. For example, if Set A was Creep and Crawl, +5 HP or +1 DMG, then you don't feel like giving up as much as if it was competing with more impactful abilities.
Correct. If it was in a line-up where it was definitely the best (given used in a theme) then I think that negative feeling displayed by the OP would be a positive one. "I get access to something the other guy can't have because I'm using this champ in theme."
That is what I am trying to point out. Forgoing a potential upgrade just to play theme as made just seems wrong to me. Phase Spider is both a Ghost and a Spider. The Choice is however, Phase Cleansing or CnC, CnC should be base, and Phase should be the optional upgrade, as CnC would only trigger in BG with enough Spiders to trigger it. There For I do " Get access to something the other guy can't have because I'm using the champ in theme."
This is certainly similar for Elsari Coven too. You feel like you're giving up a lot for... not much. But at the same time not taking it feels wasteful when you are going for the theme. For Coven I'd like something like (on top of the normal effect) "This champion takes 2 less damage from Cursed units." Also, it would be nice if the Curse ability did 100% damage to cursed units.
It's also possible the theme abilities cost too much. For example, if picking the Theme ability would be a -8 nora vs a middle of the road ability, then it starts to feel like a much better potential choice as well.
This "Racial epidemic is not just for spiders, I am just pointing it out in Spiders as that is what I play atm. Yes I agree Racials need a Definition, not a Pick and Choose.
Yeah, that is true. Multiattack costing 8 When 4 other champions of the same race are deployed this champion has multiattack costing 4 Both on the upgrade choices. Something like that.
But then you have the Argument of "Is racials something On the BASE of the rune, not a bonus?" Same concept as trying not to put the UD Faction Bonus into consideration when making the rune. So it is an actual bonus. Should Racials be a Bonus? I think if the Rune is what it is, then It should be on before Nora cost for upgrades.
I don't know enough about the other themes to make a proper arguement. "Shoehorning" is better than me spouting off what I don't know.
Personally, I have no problem with a spectrum of themes, there can be obvious themes - Some themes, maybe Spiders, can have their ability on base, and any newbie reading the runes can say "I know what to do with this," and other themes could require picking into them, while others aren't coded to an ability at all, but an emergent one like how the Discipline abilities work together indirectly now.
I do. What I said before. Is should they be counted as a bonus during calculation? If so, then the UD FB should also. Which would just make all the runes have -4 dmg overall to compensate for the FB. Which isn't right. Sorry If my logic is twisted. Best way I can say it is -" I think like a Salarian" Mass Effect. I am trying to articulate what I am thinking the best way I can. Sorry If I am falling short, and seeming to be stubborn.
I agree, however. CnC will only be triggered if there is enough Spiders around to Trigger it. If per say you use Cinderpede in a full fire BG the difference is Night and Day whether it gets any use out of it at all.
