Steam user experience with "revamped" Pox Nora

@Senshu: Do you still have that problem at other times of the day? <--- can't say for now,I just successfully completed the daily mission though

@Covah: On the topic referring to the pre-made decks, it is kind of hard to figure out what to do here. <--- I don't really see in which way is this hard actually...I mean,if you are not giving the cards to a player,I would say to remove this decks altogether...what is the point of playing with a "borrowed deck" that I can't have fun leveling up nor modifying?! It just kills the whole point of a card collecting game in my opinion and also the rpg side of it. Instead,would've be better to give the player a "starting funds" to allow him to purchase 20-30 basic runes of his choice (I like green,so I would purchase 30 green runes) and from there,he builds up,striving to make his deck stronger and better,that's the heart of an rpg in my opinion,improving,betterment - but as for now,you don't even have your own starting cards,you don't have the basic foundation so there is no room for improvement,there is only room for brainless grinding until you get to 30 starting runes,then the game can really beggin.

As I said,I am in singleplayer only for grind those starting runes,so the singleplayer as it is now is hurting me and is hurting the multiplayer too,since people have to spend their playing time in singleplayer grinding instead of enjoying playing with each other, and the multi is kind of... "empty" (since everyone needs the grind,or they will be ***** by strong decks) ...that's how I see it ^_^

I woner what would happen if the singleplayer where shutted down... Everyone moves to ranked,so I could challenge opponent with shitty decks like mine,everyone would have a somewhat 50% tollerable win rate and fun,right?...that's a thing worth to be considered,even if sounds drastic...playing against the actual AI is not worth anyway,too many ways to cheat on it (last game,he kept shooting with his magic dmg creatures at my Menalus wich is immune,it kept doing it for like 4 turn...while I steamrolled with my ranged units 1 square behind menalus...so silly xD )

PS: What does CP means? Are those coins used to level up cards?

 

CP is the exp a card has (200max) at 100 & 200 you unlock new skills.

You use tokens or playing games to gain CP on your cards.

 

So I'm only at -9999 + 235 = -9765 now.

When will the prizes be awarded again?

 

I'm so confused I got a notification that Senshu quoted my post...

 

Can't believe this...again,lost 3 in a row because I was matched 3 times with a killer deck... Though this time,I asked the guy some questions. Apparently he and I where the same rank,but yesterday he spent 25€ in cards,therefore he has the right to ruin each single one of my games. Isn't this what people call "pay to win"? Worst of all,even if he kept brutally destryoing me,his rank didn't went up,he was still rank 5000 (I saw it in chat).

Enough complaining,now for the solution: This game should use a second method of matchmaking that works in conjunction with the Rank,and it is the Tier. Same as the Tier system of the game robocraft,basically people with roughly the same "deck power" are matched inside the same Tier. So for instance,if I have no Exoctic or better cards in my deck,I play with people in Tier 1 (decks without anything too fancy so to say.)
The moment I place an Exotic or higher in my deck,I go up on Tier 2 and I play against players with at least one exotic but no more,and so on for the other tiers. This of course is only an example,there could be other ways to judge the "deck power" and roughly put people against same tiers,so my shitty deck has not ever again to go against a huber deck.
The moment that guy purchased that huge boost,should have never been allowed to destroy newcomers,he should have been sent to a different league.
Otherwise what am I doing here?! Am I simply "food" to allow the ones who pay to climb the rank ladder?! If this is what am I suppose to be,I am seriously not going to keep playing the game...is too unfair toward me.

Just to clarify,I don't ask to win,I simply ask a somewhat fair game ^_^'

 

Hrm, if you are up against those types of decks, why not just request and stick to training ground matches?

 

@DMrBadguy:

I don't know,this seems to me more like an easy way to dismiss what I just said putting it on my skills. You can just test yourself,pick the premate K'tir dawn deck (was that that the name?!) and challenge a huber deck. Then tell me if somewhat felt unfair.
Also consider that the guy was new too,so is more likely that our experience was on the same level.

@KTCAOP: Because on training ground I will be always forced to play the premade deck,there is no point then in collecting cards or level them up. Again,this reply could be compared to "then why you just don't do something else? Like NOT playing this game"...guys,that's not how you solve problems,that's how you ignore them(because of course, is easier). Maybe you're right,maybe is only MY problem...who knows... though I'm curious to hear Senshu opinion about

Off topic: is "Senshu" the japanese word for "player ; team member" ?!　Just studying the language to play japanese games too,and I get curious when I see japanese words xD

 

Hrm... It's a difficult place to say. Often times in many RPG games you are given a set of characters to play with that you may or may not keep in the future after you have learned the basics and are able to unlock more runes. You are asking for a fair environment, yet you are disregarding the closest thing to a fair environment that there that we can offer. With the Training Ground decks, there is a set number of decks that are able to be in rotation, you know exactly which decks can be played and everything inside which allows you to improve on your basic strategy, timing, and thought process of the game. Even in RPGs, you are not thrown every single mechanic at you at once, that would be overwhelming and frustrating to play against.

There are three levels to this game, first is the skill of the game. I call this the basic innate decision making that you can do. Everyone does this differently, some people can really think and plan moves far in advance, others can only see what is right in front of them. While this can theoretically improve over time, it's one of the most difficult to do. Second is experience. Sure you might be able to plan moves, but how many situations have you been exposed to? This part you can improve on, there are many runes with many abilities, along with many spells, relics, and equipment that give all sorts of different interactions. Can you see something and instantly recognize what it is that you are seeing? The final one is your toolset, the number of runes you have, and the main way this game monetizes. You can certainly buy more runes, or you can grind to unlock more runes. However, if you are going into a battle against someone with more runes that are available to them, you are of course going to be at a disadvantage.

Training Ground Decks remove the final barrier by completely limiting the number of runes that are able to be played and put a cap onto the second. There are only so many interactions that are able to be experienced if you are restricted to the initial number of interactions that you have. By doing the dailies, campaigns, and skirmishes, yu wuld eventually be able to grind yourself up to a point where you would be able to compete with us that have put thousands of hours into this game.

Yes you are forced to play a premade battlegroup to begin with. If I gave you a random box of runes, would you even know what a halfway decent battlegroup would look like? How many champions should you have in your battlegroup? Does it matter if you are in SP vs FW vs UD vs FS? If you have the option of casting a spell to kill a unit, would it be worth it? What if you cast a spell where you don't kill a unit, but you deal damage to 5 enemy units but then you can no longer deploy a unit it, is it wort it? So on and so forth.

I mean, I'm sure there's quite a few of us here that would be willing to play with you just by using sample starters and even then, we would hold a significant advantage over you just due to experience and skill. However, I am hearing that not only do you desire to enter into this kind of a battle, but a battle where it is even more unfair since many of us "veterans " also have more runes than you as well? I understand it is frustrating getting paired up with the same person over and over, and that is a symptom of a fairly low playerbase, however, that really is not the core issue from my understanding of what I am reading.

 

I agree with a lot of the points you're making Marcus. On the note of starting out with Your own deck right away, I think that's an awesome idea. I think you should be able to choose one of the premade decks after fully completing the new user experience. These runes would then be yours to keep, but they should be starred(untradeable - so people can't exploit and create new cards and just select the decks with the most legendaries and exotics). You could upgrade them and swap out runes as you choose.

The purpose of the premade decks is to give new players a direction in how to build your own deck.. Try to include some range, support, tanks, etc. It also gives new players a way to have a "fair" (Assuming the premade decks are all balanced ) fight with other players.

Your tier system of ranked play queuing is interesting as well, but with such a low playerbase I don't think it would ever realistically work. It would also cause 2 problems, 1. Someone would have to rank all the cards and give them all a fair power rating, which would be time consuming and likely biased. 2. Exotic cards are not always better than lower rarity cards. Take Falconer for instance, he's an extremely strong card and he's common.

And I just wanted to note, Poxnora takes a LOT of experience to be able to play really well. Hang in there and keep playing and you'll get better! Ktcaop explained this really well so I won't go into detail

 

@KTCAOP: the only thing I know for sure is that this is the third free to play card game I try (I am not mentioning the one I paid,like Magic:The Gathering),before this I played Heartstone and Might & Magic: Duel of Champions.

In both those game I played ranked from the start,and though I am no pro,I was totally able to kick asses and maintaine a reasonable ratio between win and losses. Why I could do it there while I can't here? Simply because in those 2 games unlocking cards was a lot easier,and matchmaking more balanced.
Here in Pox Nora I played 4 games in training grounds,and won 3 out of 4,why then I get utterly obliterated in ranked? Is just cause I am not good enough or maybe my opponent actually has a huber deck and shouldn't be matched against a newcomer? Also,if the plan is to stay in the Training ground just to have a fair battleground,then what's next? I stay there and just keep to own with the pre-made deck until I get enough card to finally build the deck I need? If that's the case,I'll end up playing 2 decks, the first one is the premade,the second one is the baddass deck for ranked,and in this,I lost the fun of slowly and progressively improve my deck,because basically I can enter ranked only when I have the actuall killer deck.
I actually think you guys can't see this because maybe you went over it already and forgot it,or maybe with the old pox nora was different,but you need to try to see the viewpoint of a newcomer without the huber deck,wich actually has no deck at all (I think I have 22 green cards for now,almost there...building a shitty deck which is useless because either you have the uber deck or you are going to suffer in ranked,for what I see...)

Seriously,Training ground as the name suggest is good for training,but shouldn't be a jail where you put who complains of the current ranked pvp system working...but apparently,you guys want to put me in there anyway...

Ranked should not be meant to be owned by pros,but should be open to everyone with a tier system imo, lower tier for shitty ranked decks (like mine) and higer tiers for pro,just how I see it

Just to make a comparison,as for now is like if there is a room where people can play chess and I (newcomer) get matched against Kasparov,wich by the way is also using only Queens instead of Pawns.

 

So, you really think your new custom deck that you can "slowly and progressively improve" will fare better in ranked than the premade ones? What makes you think your 1-star champs will match up to others' 3-star, fully upgraded ones? And it sounds like you're not willing to spend money on the game but guess what, to build a killer deck you need killer runes which you need to buy in packs.

You're new and you're unwilling to play against other premade decks where most other new players go and learn how to play. You also don't want to play against people who have spent time and money building a competitive deck. And you're not willing to spend time and money building your own competitive deck. Maybe this game isn't for you.

 

I don't know Might and Magic Duel of the Champions and my experience with Hearthstone is minimal, but Hearthstone has an significantly lower skill cap (it's not a 2.5d, movement, capturing, resource management, positioning is minimal if not completely ignored) and is significantly more luck based than PoxNora.

There are two answers to your question in Training Grounds vs Ranked. And to answer your question about why you get obliterated in ranked, why can't it be both? Yes, your point is somewhat valid about the decks. However, maybe in the Training Grounds you actually played against a newer player. In Ranked you did not because you opened yourself up to the entire pool. There are players here that can beat me with an all commons decks, I'm not a great player, and rarity truly isn't the be all and end all of runes though it is easy to feel that way. While runes and the ability to create a good deck is indeed a very, very important skill that is especially important for higher tier play, the knowledge and understanding of the game is significantly more important. Another point which is in part due to the smaller player base (which does also impact match making as explained previously), is that there is a larger gulf.

If there was a way to safely loan you runes, I'd be happy to loan you two or three hundred runes of various rarities, but again, I really don't think that would solve the base problem of what you are experiencing. Yes, as I said, having more tools and having better tools gives you an advantage, it's the third advantage that I listed and it is a very significant advantage. I agree, there should be some sort of bridge, but as it is, until we get Draft Tournaments or something similar back, that will be fairly limited. There are a lot of runes, there are very few players, and the distribution is like an upsidedown hour-glass figure (imagine a wedding gown flipped upside down, most of the players here are extremely experienced, there are a good batch of new players, but there are very, very few players at the moment inbetween).

In the end, I would take up DMrBadguy's offer. I am more than happy to be here to try to help support and encourage you and I am more than willing to try to answer as many questions as I can. PoxNora is *not* an easy game. It is a complex game, it is a difficult game, it is a challenging game. With that said, it has been one of the most rewarding games I have ever played and I have not been able to find a game anywhere like it nor have I found a game that has given me as much enjoyment as I have had with PoxNora, and I have access and have played a lot of games. This is the game I have spent the most time, money, and energy on compared with all of the other games, publishers, and developers that I have interacted with other the years. I love this game. I'm not that great at it, but I still enjoy it immensely.

 

@nitebane21 :

No man,you totally missed the point here... I said that my shitty newcomer deck should be matched against other shitty newcomer decks,and not against pro-huber 3 stars decks,this is what I am saying.

You missed the point again here...as I repeated in two previous reply,I have 122 hours at this game,I where simply forced to start a new account,doesn't mean I am new. And yes,you are right about the fact I am unwilling to play against or playing premade decks,and this because a card collecting game should be focused on your deck,and not on the deck that someone else made and that you can't even modify.

wrong and wrong. I am not willing to build a final deck in order to be allowed to play the deck I made,I want an experience where my deck grows and improve,as it happens on any other card game or rpg experience.

Imagine I'm playing an RPG, where I have to use a secondary character who doesn't even level up,and I have to play it for hours just to grind the gold to actually buy the final equipment to use my main character...does that make any sense? Basically when I reach the quota,I buy the stuff for my main character and he is in his final form,final equipment,without me ever playing it. The game finishes before it even starts,and with game I mean the "growing/improving rpg experience.

So you're wrong when you say I am not willing to put time for it,is just the opposite,I want to spend time improving my deck,starting with a shitty one,but the game doesn't allow me to do so because shitty deck are not allowed to survive in this game,who matches EVERYONE against huber.

I feel like your whole message was an excuse to write this last part without beign tagged for "negative reply attitude" or something :S But I may be wrong.
And again,maybe it could be true,but that's just because I don't ever settle on unfair ground.

 

just for the record, this is the exact reason I and others argued against releasing on steam this soon. this player didn't get a chance to become addicted. so fixes coming soon are not soon enough. new player lost. potential revenue lost.

 

@KTCAOP:

I appreciate the thought,though this is totally against my vision of what a collecting card game and an rpg are. There is fun and awe in obtaining a single new card you didn't expected,is awesome to tinker with the deck and insert it in it , bringing it one step closer to perfection. Each step make the deck stronger. Your offer is like if I where to start an rpg at half max level,let's say level 50 out of 100,with a shitload of weapons and armour unlocked...it would simply kill the game for me. It would be not about unlocking anymore,it would just be one of many turn based strategic game, it would lose what it makes this game "unique " (and for me better) compared to other turn based rpg.

...it is an unfair game. You forgot to mention it I love complex games,I like difficult,and challenge is extreme important otherwise became boring. But when I lose,I must be able to say "I lost because of my mistake.The battleground was fair,I just f*cked up"...that gives motivetion to a person to do better the next time.That's why when you lose a Dota 2 match,you play one more. As for now,that is only happening in training ground,but it doesn't matter a lot,since in there I can't use my own deck and the game lose the "card collecting/rpg side and became just a random turn based strategic.

 

Can't be more right about the "lost player" part. 5 of my friends on steam friend list who saw me playing asked me about the game (3 of them used to play the old pox nora),how it was an so on,and of course I had to give them my honest opinion,the same thing I wrote in this two pages,and of course they now are not playing it,and I can imagine this happening over and over every second now, with people who ask to friends trying this game or reverse, with people trying it out and not suggesting it to their friends

Though "this player didn't get a chance to become addicted." part is wrong,I actually probably am addicted since the first release of pox nora on Steam,is just that the thing I mentioned kill the game for me.

 

I see what you're getting at. You need more breathing room to feel like you are growing towards an end goal instead of going 0 to 90 in one second. Either pre-constructed or uber bg... no inbetween.

I think the pre-constructed bgs could be fully leveled to at least allow you to fiddle with the bg and champ upgrades.

As for runes I like how they reward you a specific faction to help expediate the rune collecting. With 8 factions however getting totally random packs is harsh. Perhaps a 'focussed' pack that hones in on one faction will help new players more.

I find that one of the most frustrating things where back then was getting packs and only 1/8th of them being in the faction I actually wanted cards to get for my building.

 

↑↑↑↑Yes,this sums it up perfectly! ↑↑↑↑

I agree,that reward method is smart. Also I am not bothered at all by the randomness of the packs,since you can still "smelt" the stuff and use the nora globe to forge a specific card,so is still fair I think. I smelt everything which is not green,I'm racist! xD