Tales of Valor and Manual

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Firk, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    ok so to start with i dont think these things are overpowered in a normal IS Full Faction deck, whery good could even gain +5 nora and i would live with it.

    But here is the thing i started playing my old IS/UD deck from long back and i never used Tales/manual in that before.

    And Vixen is compleatly booooonkers with these, even goblin gloombringer is op with this.

    I am whery much against nerfing these things to the shoebox. But there needs to be a quick fix so you cant abuse them in splits. I dont know what to do but make them only 50% as good in splits or somthing.
  2. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    Meh, I've never run either of these runes in FF or split, so I honestly couldn't care less if they got nerfed. But mind you, I DO think they could stand to take a nerf in efficiency, as both runes are amazingly cheap for the stats they give. I could see Tales of Valor becoming 35 nora, Barbarian-only, and refunding 2 nora (up to 10) for each Barb out. Manual could probably just use a cost increase.
  3. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    Tales needs to just get a cost hike so that its not so easily spam able on all your champs due to the 5 turn CD currently.

    ARlSTOTLE The King of Potatoes

    Tactical Manual seems costly for what it grants, honestly. I mean you have to be low health where you could easily die next round for it to give you all that much of a benefit. So spending that much nora on a champ about to die, meh. Tales is a cheap way to gain tremendous strength on something about to die, so I like the flavor of it. However, I agree the cost could be a tiny bit higher. When I saw manual though, I was like, "wtf, I thought new runes coming out were supposed to up the power curve so they get nerf calls." Seriously, Manual seems meh to me. I suppose Manual used WITH Tales can be strong, since Tales also grants the armor, making it so the champ is less likely to die. But at that point, you're essentially sinking 50 extra nora into a champ that could easily die the next round. Just my thoughts.

    Here is a thought: Have Tales grant 2 different abilities, instead of just granting courage. It gives them DAMAGE ABILITY 2, and ARMOR ABILITY 1, whereas Manual gives the DAMAGE ABILITY 1. So Manual's gift of DAMAGE ABILITY 1, would obviously be overridden by level 2 of the ability given by Tales, and prevent the damage increase from stacking on same champ. You could still stack both on the same champ and Manual would grant it's healing, but the damage ability would be the same ability on both, level 1 from Manual, but level 2 from Tales, and not stack the damage.
    Nora That likes this.
  5. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    With Manual , Aristotle , its the damage bonus that makes it so strong + 1 damage for 10hp might not seem great, but on units like Angels or Turret Teams it adds substantial power. Angels will have 18 damage or so with a banner / command paladin champ out + Aerial Sup means she's going to be hitting things for 20 damage at range 6, its very strong. On turret Teams for example, with boost and banner and Superior Engineering it sits at around 21 damage at range 7 + flanking damage (+5) . Its nothing to sniff at. The health recovey aspect of it is almost non-consequential.
  6. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    These are runes beef up our units in the now instajib prone meta. Before Is followed the scheme of kill or die in the era of Griffin wings, fast units hitting the enemy hard while being elusive.With these two runes it actually makes it possible to develop decks built on continuous skirmish. Personally I think tactical manual is great because if you are truly annoyed by a champion with it, they week focus him down. That it's when courage come into play to maximize the amount of health gained during the fighting.
    Courage has already been axed in power level when they tied the HP 8 to health rather than just plain 8 HP ( it used to be much Mutch worse) meaning each champion has a specific amount of def and damage they can gain from the spell.

    I think tactical manual is a good rune but far from overpowered. Equipment need to be efficient to be ran, just look at kf and the equipment they taylor in tier Bgs(fern, shimmering flower, the uncounterable crown that works two ways). It is the age of the game.

    Tales of valor, is a meta evolution spell. In it's current form it will be part of many Is decks that draw damage from our key champions onto our tanks. Is that bad? Fw still runs 1-2 mobilization, reapers blade,domination,essence drain and steal life. Everyone knows not to leave units with 0 AP at low health, not yo save AP near chasms cause of years playing with And against them. Courage makes People who expect to play Is deploy stuff that can trade with ironfist, lower or bypass or defense and things that dispel our support spells. I have experienced it during loads of games.

    If any Nerf to tales would happen it should make the spell effect removable or +5 Nora for cooldown purposes, anything else and I'll just trash the spell completely along with any IS tank meta presence
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  7. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Tacman 35, takes 30
  8. Makorov

    Makorov I need me some PIE!

    What if Tales of Valor got a duration?
  9. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

  10. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    Then it would just be another one of IS's effects that are either directly countered or ignored until the duration is passed.

    R.d. Against a well built deck is one example of this
  11. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - Tales of valor is just IS version of retribution. Tactical manual is more painful imo, since its more proactive and armory synergized. Prolly the obligatory +5 nora slap could be handled.
  12. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    I'm on the fence here between a "wut" reply and a "this is the most convoluted comparison I've ever seen" reply. Someone help me pick one.
  13. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Its not that far off base. It basically requires you to kill the unit or else end up with a world of hurt in your face. The difference is that it costs 20 less nora and also makes the champion far harder to kill. I could see at least a +5 hike on each.
  14. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    ALso i can recomend unbending force + tales of valor hoho atleast +10 damage for last turn
  15. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - It's just reality, its typical powercreep in spell form and could stand a tap. I don't see how that makes it not comparable in nature to retribution? not every comment requires a knee jerk defensive position.. as I clearly said it could handle a +5 nora nerf. "omg!! you agreed with me but not in the way I wanted you too!! herpderp!!"
  16. nico

    nico I need me some PIE!

    leoss with tales and tactical are brutal, in leoss you dont use a spells if dont have real impact on game, but put tales on bastion remnant or leoss guardian or even the fist bros, win me a lot of games.... and another thing, lost of life dont trigger tales of valor, i dont know if its a bug or what?
  17. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Just a bit too cheap, that's all.
  18. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    The only people I put tales on consistently in kittins would be remnant and ravager, who combined in a warcry juices almost any thing. This is a prime example of how these spells evolve IS. Before these were given to IS, leoss were perhaps the most handicapped theme in terms of efficiency, but with these "crutches" it bout only allows those champions to survive long enough with to get that warcry off to change the game without dumping 50 Nora on a healing hand our div touch
    Nora That and nico like this.
  19. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    that's just silly
  20. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    This rave about manual being OP is Ludacris, it's not even a crutch, it's just a meta equip that's a little NoS in your race car...
  21. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Both extremely undercosted and have been deserving a tap for a while now.

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