Terrorist Attacks in Belgium: Europe United?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by DarkJello, Mar 18, 2016.

Page 6 of 20
  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's true that drone strikes in the middle east have killed a number of innocents, including some Americans (in one situation, they were hostages).

    One of the question we have to ask though is what the alternatives are. Because a traditional assault, like with Afganistan, is far more bloody for both foreigners and Americans, military or civilian.

    So I think if one is concerned about civilian causalities with drone strikes, one needs to be concerned about the greater impact that an armed invasion such as with Iraq would have.

    Of course, it depends on how one defines "enemy combatants" and "civilian." But one has to imagine air strikes supporting ground troops would have greater potential for collateral damage than targeted drone strikes, especially since the terrorists love to bunker up in heavily populated areas.

    Some data:
    http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._how_unmanned_aircraft_reduce_collateral.html
    http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1000415
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/90-of-people-killed-by-us-drone-strikes-in-afghani/ <- this report suggests that 90% of people killed by drones are innocent, but it's hard to verify this number as it is so far above what everyone else reports, but I thought I'd include it for the sake of completeness

    Of course, drones have other issues (many of which aren't even military related) and certainly target selection is one of these concerns, but I think the "innocents" idea is one where we have to consider the possibility that drones are actually safer for collateral damage than a large scale assault.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #101
    Geressen and DarkJello like this.
  2. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    You're taking my words way out of context (I'm assuming you meant my "don't you dare make this about all muslims again" sentence).

    I could have put "you shouldn't make this" a sort of sentence and it would have expressed the same thought. Perhaps I was a little more agitated because, I don't know, they bombed a train station an hour away from where I lived.

    It was clearly not intended in a macho way. Neither was either one of us trolling. So your comprehension is very off, even more so your conclusion.
     
    BurnPyro, Mar 23, 2016
    #102
  3. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Radical Lefties have killed scores of millions MORE human beings than radical Righties, BP. Communism and such.

    Hitler was a national socialist, but it is easier to pretend that his brutal style of big government was WAY different than all the other styles of brutal government. The fact that so many alleged liberals and progressives, like BP et al, think a theocratic culture will join with them in celebrating alternative lifestyles is MADNESS! Their answer to alternative lifestyles--like being a christian, or gay, or supporter of free speech--is one of the following three options: 1) Convert. 2) Pay extra taxes. 3) Death.

    Take the blue pill guys. Join us in reality. I cannot and will not force you to do so. But the islamists will NOT show you the same respect.

    Finally, a TON of christians were bat shiz crazy 100s of years ago. They evolved. Islam, a government system AND religion, is as violent and barbaric as ever.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #103
  4. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    EXACTLY why socialism will never actually work, or move humanity forward. Rewarding laziness is NOT progress. Thanks for your honesty.
     
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #104
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I really don't understand why righties think of these guys as "socialists" just because they claimed to be so and forget the fact they were basically genocidal dictators.

    It's easy to pretend that SOCIALISM is what killed people, instead of EVIL INDIVIDUALS.
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #105
    Tweek516, Geressen and BurnPyro like this.
  6. ssez

    ssez I need me some PIE!

    And meanwhile in some cities they are handing out candy in the streets to celebrate this.
    Oh that was you ? lol

    Hey thanks man, that tough guy stuff cracks me up, I look forward seeing more of your posts, you're ****in funny!
     
    ssez, Mar 23, 2016
    #106
    DarkJello likes this.
  7. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Both are terrorists. All terrorists need to be confronted and defeated. Waving a flag is NOT terrorism. Neither is dressing like a redneck.

    Islamic terrorists kill 100s of people for every 1 person killed by white supremacy terrorists. Keep your eye on the ball. Focus on the gaping wound, not the tiny scratch.
     
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #107
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I don't follow this conclusion.

    Nothing is 100% fullproof or works all the time or for everyone. The question we have to ask is whether these systems DECREASES the likelihood of such events, and you cannot draw the conclusion that it didn't work based on a single or even a few individual instances.

    It's like suggesting that airbags on cars don't work because sometimes they fail while ignoring the cases where it might have saved lives.

    Note that I am not saying it did work specifically, as I don't have the data to support either conclusion, but if one feels that many of the "refugees" aren't actually refugees as many of you seem to, then one would imagine there'd be far more attacks in Europe than there actually has been.

    To put it another way, I could just as easily look at some news story about "affluenza" or something and say:

    EXACTLY why Capitalism will never actually work, or move humanity forward. Rewarding laziness is NOT progress. Thanks for your honesty. ​

    But it'd be an incorrect conclusion based on that data point.
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #108
    Geressen likes this.
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Doesn't seem to stop you from complaining about drone strikes?
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #109
  10. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    More power in the hands of the few always results in even more regression and horrific abuses, and eventually violent and awful revolutions.

    The founding fathers of America got the balance of power just about right. MuriKa abandoned those ideals, and has been paying the price ever since.
     
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #110
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    More powerful in the hands of the few can happen under any alleged system. It's not a socialism problem.

    There have been horrific abuses under many kinds of regimes, whether it's exploitation via capitalism, serfdom or slavery, or under allegedly communist regimes that largely functioned as serfdoms in reality.

    I can't really agree with this. The Founding Fathers made sure the balance of power were in the hands of the owners of property and the elite, and only gradually did America give rights to everyone, as it claimed to.
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #111
  12. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    If GW Bush ordered the same drone strikes, the propagandists/agitators called journalists would have millions of Americans protesting in the streets.

    But Obama is a Democrat, so the response is silence. 1,000,000 killed under Obama's orders, and crickets is the response.

    If Trump becomes POTUS, the same "journalists" will awaken and complain 24/7/365 about all the death and destruction. Trump might be a trojan horse. We shall see.

    I will continue to point out this BLATANT hypocrisy until the day I die. Have a great day sir.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #112
  13. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    The founding fathers set the stage for that progress. Many brave/noble/good women and men pushed through admirable changes in the generations that followed. But, about 100 years ago, the train came off the rails and the foundation for failsauce began to be poured. The last few decades have shown that hypothesis to be correct, especially in light of all the tyrannical laws passed during the GW Bush and Obama years. Debt out of control. Accountability nearly dead. Lies ad nauseam. Etc...
     
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #113
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    He did order drone strikes. But there have been a lot more under Obama:

    upload_2016-3-23_10-33-50.png

    Numerous reports indicate that the rate of civilian causalities via Drone Strikes have dramatically decreased under Obama.

    I don't even understand you sometimes. It's like you pretend to be blind so you can say whatever the heck you want.

    The UN Says US Drone Strikes in Yemen Have Killed More Civilians Than al Qaeda
    https://news.vice.com/article/the-u...emen-have-killed-more-civilians-than-al-qaeda

    Kissinger: Drones have killed more civilians than the bombing of Cambodia in the Vietnam War
    http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ger-drones-have-killed-more-civilians-bombin/

    Nearly 90 Percent Of People Killed In Recent Drone Strikes Were Not The Target
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/civilian-deaths-drone-strikes_us_561fafe2e4b028dd7ea6c4ff

    Obama-led drone strikes kill innocents 90% of the time: report
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/90-of-people-killed-by-us-drone-strikes-in-afghani/

    (Also, where is this "1 million killed" number you keep citing? I have never seen it.)

    I am glad you care about hypocrisy when it suits your agenda, but explain it away otherwise. Have a great day, sir.
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #114
  15. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Ironically you fail to comprehend my answer in which I explain why your reading comprehension was poor. Or choose to just don't care, either way you're not worth the time.
     
    BurnPyro, Mar 23, 2016
    #115
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    All of which is happening in a country that continues to fight against socialism along with having a system allegedly so great at keeping things in check.

    Your statements prove MY hypothesis correct that the groundwork wasn't that all great to begin with and that it has nothing to do with socialism?
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #116
  17. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I said the "journalists" would complain about the death and destruction all the time, and thus create lots of protests. If Trump wins, they will gear up again.

    I never said every single journalist is silent. The response is almost purely political. Our guy/gal can kill and maim and destroy, but NOT the other guy/gal.
     
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #117
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #118
  19. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Ok, I give up. We should just let the Totalitarian Lefties gain power, slaughter and enslave the planet, and thank our stars that racism has been eradicated.

    The groundwork in America was top notch, and allowed for the rise of a great nation. But the crony capitalism has metastasized over the last few generations, thus the current failure and despair has grown larger and more dreadful. Enter Bernie and Trump. American citizens are desperate for a solution.

    Socialism is theft backed up with the threat of violence. Thus I cannot vote for Bernie, even though I like many of his points. Trump is chaos. Cruz is very "holy".
     
    DarkJello, Mar 23, 2016
    #119
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It must be easy being you, to so easily put things in black and white boxes of extremes.

    I am glad you at least put the word Totalitarian in there though, suggesting that you are starting to understand being left by itself does not mean you are Totalitarian.
     
    Sokolov, Mar 23, 2016
    #120
    Geressen likes this.
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