The gun control talk

Honestly, 1 man in a matter of minutes. 58 dead, 500+ injured.

Civilians shouldn't be able to start a war by themselves

 

Noone cares because it wasnt ISIS

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/73z7np/us_gun_fans_looking_at_vegas_please_explain_a/


is a decent starting point. fwiw, while i firmly believe that there's no way for any armed militia or guerilla force to actually beat the full force of the US govt+military, it's also true that such a militia could cause a lot of pain (mostly by hitting civilian targets, though, which starts bringing into question who the Firk they'd be fighting for, what the difference between them and terrorists really is, all that good stuff)


the point about a civil war kicking off and guns flooding the country is also interesting; it's a given to me that, were the US to fracture, Notable Other Countries would get involved pretty quick in pursuit of their own interests, and that this would by necessity involve arming and supplying the side(s) of their choice

 

I'm a gun owner. What I see when I try to figure out why gun laws haven't been changed in the aftermath of all these tragedies is simple. Each time bills are brought up, they try to do too much. Surveys are often done that show that the majority of Americans are in favor of more intensive background checks. I have yet to see a bill proposed that does just that, increases the background checks, without adding on something else. I believe that the disconnect is when a bill tries to ban "assault style" weapons, which has different definitions depending on the bill, it fails.

My hunting rifle, which I use for deer hunting, has a thumbhole stock. I bought that stock after market and swapped out the stock my rifle came with. Had the "assault style" ban gone into effect after Sandy Hook, that stock would have been illegal as a thumbhole stock is considered a pistol grip. I learned to shoot in the military, using an M-16. A pistol grip is key to how I learned to shoot accurately. Prior to changing the stock out, I could hit a 3 inch diameter target reliably at 200 yards. With my current stock, I can hit that same target reliably at 350 yards.

 

One thing to remember about America is that our country was founded by people rising up against their government. When our government was formed one of the things the 'founding fathers' felt was important was holding those in charge accountable (Yes I realize the irony these days) to the common people and giving the people the ability to rise up against the government if the military or a dictator ever attempted to take control.

Personally I do not possess a firearm but I am familiar and comfortable with their usage. I have always felt that the right to own a weapon is important but that it should be handled much like a vehicle or airplane. People should be required to take a class teaching basic safety and laws associated with owning a weapon as well as trying to impress the weight of responsibility in owning one. Have different grades of license scaling up depending on what grade hardware they wish to own that would require a certain number of hours at the range with an instructor. Any idiot could possess a weapon if they put in the time and effort.

 

A friend of mine always used to say we ignore what goes on around us because ignoring a problem is easier than fixing it.

I have to say its mind blowing how the republicans refuse to even start a dialogue after a mass shooting because they claim...now its not the time or they blame liberals and democrats that they are politicising the tragedy ((Firking hate that line)). How is this still an issue after all those tragedies? and what does it take for people to say enough is enough

With all due respect to the constitution but a document written so many years ago shouldnt be undebatable if it dictates day to day lives and we use that same argument when we try to argue with religious fanatics.

 

The "gun control talk" is basically showing a robber a "gun free zone" sign posted on a bank. You really think changing the law will prevent bad people from doing bad things? You know the millions of American home owners who own guns nowadays? Do you know anything about American history @BurnPyro? How about the prohibition period? Guns will always be in circulation in America and I would rather be armed than wait an unreasonable time for the police to show. This debate has already been discussed. Liberals such as Piers Morgan just wanna whine all day and night thinking a simple ban will stop something like this. Pathetic.

 

But go ahead and keep telling yourself a simple law will change things. I'm from Orlando Florida where the Pulse Nightclub shooting happened. I can tell you for a fact that if anyone had a concealed carry, we wouldn't be looking at 49 dead 58 wounded.

 

Ah yes, which is why every other modern nation has insane crime statistics and the US doesnt.

Ho ho ho wait

Youre right. However just because one exists doesnt mean we shouldnt try to limit casualties by the other. Thats just red herring 101

Also, one was a foreign terrorist intent on murdering as many as possible to sow fear. The other a man with seemingly no motive. How much does opportunity play into the last scenario?

Yeah, regardless of end goal babysteps should be the way to go about it.

I think increased background checks for all purchases would go a long way.

 

let's back this up a little bit. as of yet, literally no one in this thread has advocated for trying to de-gun america. no one. it's not relevant. i'm sure some people call for an end to all guns, but if they really believe they'll get there i'd be pretty surprised.

and that's for a good reason- even if such a law was passed easily, it's not as though you'd have any idea how effective it had been. the key is probably going to be between tracking gun/ammo purchases more (ie fewer gun show check skips), maybe increasing ammo costs, increasing background checks, limiting frequency of firearm sales to people with (active?) mental health issues, and adding mandatory gun safety+training classes to the requirements for a license, as well as potentially upping the penalties for being unlicensed.


there's obviously not going to be a perfect solution. so long as you have guns as widespread as the US does, there's always potential for an event like this. likely the best we're gonna get is flagging more of the potential mass-murderers before they go off.

about this specific incident, there really wasn't anything anyone in the crowd could have done to stop it. the 'good guy with a gun' notion doesn't hold up when that guy is 32 floors down, let alone being wildly outgunned.


oh, and in a Firking nightclub you think another shooter would've made things better? maybe the body count would be like 10 less. maybe. maybe it would've been 10 more because he has no idea where the Firk to shoot.

 

Just want to interject on this point here.... because the Trump team used it before and continue to use it. The fact that you own a gun doesnt necessarily mean that u know how to use it and if everyone started shooting in a small setting that would create the following:

1. More confusion to the cops who will assume any shooter is hostile
2. Possibly more casualties because aiming a gun in real life isnt like call of duty
3. People start taking the law into their own hands which defeats the purpose of a goverment

 

So you still haven't proposed a solution. All you're doing is pointing at a sign while jumping up and down. Sure America has a huge crime rate and a huge number of so called "felons" are sitting in jail for non violent crimes. Your point being?

 

Ah yeah, we just need more guns, how could I forget.

You know every week a toddler in the US kills someone with a gun.

More guns, because only good guys carry guns and good guys with guns can equal out any bad guy with guns.

 

This is basically what I'm alluding to...

 

Sure so hypothetically speaking if you were cornered in a supermarket and a mass shooter comes in, you would roll the dice and wait 5+ for the nearest police car to show up.

 

The following points are non brainers:

1. Guns shouldnt be accessible to people who SHOULDNT have them including ex-felons, patients with extensive psychiatric history
2. Schools , nightclubs etc should be a gun free zone strictly period
3. Certain Guns should be banned completely to the public or very heavily regulated

those should be the baseline from which a debate can start

 

P.S. you still haven't proposed a plan. You are just begging for attention.

 

Wake up call! Mass shooters don't care about "Gun Free Zones"!

 

"LOGIC"

 

Not sure if trolling or