The gun control talk

How many of these

And what I'm TRYING to tell you is that your argument is irrelevant because LOOK AT THE FACTS. And you still manage to beat around bush considering all my bullet points.

 

It's people like you and possibly Burn who spend their entire lives in Europe making cookie cutter arguments from what the media tells them.

 

Look mate.... Look at it from a controlled study perspective and compare the rate of crime and mass shootings between sample A and B and then compare the different factors that come into play and work from there. Do that for health care, guns poverty lines etc...

Draw your own conclusions based on that and if u fail to see or understand the arguments we are trying to make then lets agree to disagree and those so called cookie cutter arguments are working whether u like it or not. If you want to learn from others based on proved results you are free to do so and if you choose to ignore facts and numbers then thats your call as well. Ive got nothing more to say on the topic

 

Just playing the devils advocate but this would be a bad suggestion considering he was hundreds of feet in the air inside a public hotel. Generally I agree with you but I dont care how good someone thinks their aim is. Returning fire at a hotel is a bad idea.

 

I find it interesting that often the argument is made that banning/restricting guns would not change anything for "the bad guys" because they get them illegally anyway; yet the majority of mass shooters got their guns over the counter.

 

Fixed.

Tbh the whole issue of long wait times could be solved if the country simply had less people. But that's a whole other debate.

On the subject of gun control, I'm a staunch advocate of the view that guns don't kill people, people kill people. If more were to be done to ensure that people never felt the need to use guns in the first place, we wouldn't have to argue about this.

 

Would banning guns even fix anything though? I don't really care what happens but to me it seems the issue lies with America being some kind of a third world dystopia. I doubt a gun ban would fix anything.

 

Actual specific example please

 

Where does everyone keep getting the word "ban"?

Seriously, control people. Read the title.

 

both zeroes where I live

HAHAHAHA think again!

both 0 because no one here lives in a post-colonial shithole with a murder and crime issue.

this includes scandinavian countries, switzerland and Germany where there are large amounts of gun owners but where the guns are kept in gun/shooting clubs or are regularly checked and the ammo controlled and furthermore lack the gun culture of the US.

 

... if this isn't true for everywhere except america why do you think this is true in america?

 

Before any of you reply think about that for a second and let it sink in slowly

 

Until you can offer a real solution instead of just screaming gun control, this conversation is going nowhere. You still haven't addressed any of my points. Sure I can agree for stricter background checks like you said but that won't solve much since the Vegas shooter was CLEAN (once again).

 

We at least have a common ground to start from, the vegas shooter was clean but the record says that the majority of them are preventable. The way we approach the answer may be different and thats OK when we start from a common place.

You have valid points that I agree with, for example taking out a shooter without endangering civilians or the right to protect yourself and your family. The fact that some people shouldn't have access to guns and so.

 

It's almost silly when people talk about stricter gun laws and what not, i'm completely 100% happy with them making it more difficult to obtain and actually think most people before owning a gun should have to take a psych test or something to make sure they aren't nuts. This simple war on guns thing though has ran it's course, if people are crazy they will kill with anything. Also 99% of the time people that commit the murders didn't go and get their gun license, they bought their guns illegally and have no license. To continue blaming the nra or whatever else is the cool things these days is dumb, and mostly why the topic hasn't gotten anywhere.

Also if a dude buys 30 guns, maybe they should get checked up on every now and then ?

 

This is what I'm saying. I can go into the hood right now and buy guns. Criminals don't care whether they are sane or insane. We already have laws against murder. This guy murdered 58 people. Will slapping an extra gun law on top of that stop him? Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws out there yet it is the murder capitol of the US. 700 homicides in 2016 alone.

 

There are two things that I believe could have mitigated the situation in Vegas. First, ban bump stocks. Second, ban magazines larger than 10 rounds. I realize that won't have any affect on the ones already out there, but it will reduce the number of people that can obtain them in the future.

In general I believe gun control could be improved by a more thorough background check, including mental health evaluation and mandatory training on how to handle guns properly.

 

... that is the funniest joke on the forum...

 

US needs stricter gun laws, period. It is rather enigmatic to get bans on Kinder Surprise to protect children when you can go to Nevada and buy an assault rifle with less burocratic measures and safeties than, let's say, a car.

That whole 2nd Amendment stuff, and Individual > Government stuff is irrelevant now. US Government has not been any worse than it is as of today, and you don't see people trying to overthrow the orange orangutan by arms. On the same vein, current governments do not need to control you by fear, they learned their lesson via 1984 and A Brave New World.

Gun apologists will use every time that "guns don't kill people, people do, you can't ban people", and the "cars kill more people every year, yet you don't claim to ban cars, do you?" plus the Second Amendment as arguments. It has become second nature for them. A former gun apologist, one of the musicians in the shooting, has already expressed how wrong he was and has come to see you guys need better, stricter gun laws. Ideally, you should be able to have a mentally sane and healthy population, but that is costlier than imposing stricter gun laws while you build up better health care systems (ones that work). Cars were created to improve transportation, to make your life easier; of course you can kill people with them, but car's raison d'être is to move things and people. What is a gun's purpose? You can't do anything else with a gun but do damage or intimidate, and that's it.

"Crimes won't go down" Tell that to Germany, or most of the developed world. "You will trample my rights!" It'd be a privilege, because it is costing human lives, and nothing should be more sacred than someone's right to live. That's kind of the whole point. "Fix the people", guys, seriously? You don't even cover everyone with your health care systems (stuff so basic even MEXICO has it btw, with its plethora of problems). "The government has to FEAR us, and they won't if you take our guns!" You're the most militaristic nation of the world bar none; no army in the world is so extensive, so well-trained, so well-armed; your assault guns won't do stuff to your own tanks and drones and bombs if it comes down to that.

 

you asked a question, I have answered it. why are you trying to blow up my answer to be something it is not?

you may want to check your news sources for bias.

EDIT:
upon reflection I came to the conclusion you probably do not want to do that...