The List; Iconsistancies-Redundacies-OP/UP/Bugs

Guarded:Voil on voil courier dose not work all. i am certain of this now.

 

UD:
This is definitely not a full list ,But its a start.......after this obvious layer we can try to balance the champs that are also a little weaker/stronger





Nerfs:

• Corrupted Cultist , not really played.... but even i can not deny so much power for 54 nora .
• Ember Wasp, well its 49 nora with decent abilities.
• Fire Giant , why they gave him colossal .. i have no idea.... if anything old fire giant was balanced.
• Goblin Gloombringer , i think its globally agreed leech vitality and life siphon has always been too much ... take 1 of the 2 out and decrease nora cost
• Goblin Brute , What?
• NeedleClaw Imp , decrease nora cost , take away rapid attack...... bounty hunter and rapid attack work together too well
• Redcap Twins , why do they have immortal anyway? probably just take immortal out
• Warogg, he is just too strong and too tanky
• Deep elf mercenary , another undercosted champ
• Grundelwulf , why does a 62 nora champ have deepwounds? this is almost as bad as KF's deadly tracker( But still far since that rune is cray)
• Magma Elemental , Under priced
• Deep elf masochist, probably has too much hp with tough and calcify for its nora price
• Goblin dirtbag , slightly underpriced

Buffs:

• Demologist , this rune is pathetic.... He is caught between the role of support and fighter.... costing the same as both combined.
• Captive Lorekeeper , can we please do something with this thing?
• Depths doombringer, 96 nora makes him unable .. he is a good champ, id take away somethings... maybe give him a new role/different set of abilities away from nora gen.
• Korona, Replace Pummel with upgrade option bloodseeker or thrist for battle..... and add battle leader base again.... ( keep in mind she did lose OB)... there might be a better way to handle her but i can't spend too much time thinking on 1 champ while trying to check them all.
• Lower Beast of Shoeul , give him backlash back
• Soulbleeder, over nerfed..... unplayable
• Soulthrister , was the 5 speed really needed? he needs at least 6 ... a decent upgrade path
• Grimilic , the nerf was not needed at all.....he was fine before
• The Spiders that don't have creep and crawl on base all should
• Rip demon alpha , the rip in his name stands for rest in peace ... this guy is just shoeboxed at 96 nora( he was shoeboxed anyway)
• Hekatian bloodguard , is by no means a weak champion.....but.... take away drain and give her bleed and blood tracker instead .... let her be viable in the bleed theme without taking away her signature drive, the range and speed nerf were hard enough....and she is 40 np
• Bok gatekeeper , What is this thing?
• Greaterpitspawn , so bad.... he wasn't playable with 29 dmg , he isn't playable now either ...... im sure a lot of players would appreciate him and all the titans being viable in the meta
• Gahlroonling ( demonic wag) , was overpowered before..... still kind of powerful some would argue, i believe its not really worth playing at 90 nora without deafening aura. Maybe give it back deafening aura since its 90 nora
• Angel of pain , hmm since you insist on over pricing her , can you at least make her ranged like everything other angel?
• Pox Harbinger , well its 100 nora ... doesn't do anything special
• Pit dragon , why? just why? if you gonna price him so high give him back colossal
• Unhinged bok , rarely played when it had charged attack , why would anyone play it now?
• Hookfiend ,was not even op..... just made him unplayable for no reason....... give him back battledrum instead of latch on , and now that you made us choose between pull and grappling pull , can he finally have 6 speed?
• Prince malandur , overpriced
• Deep Elf Monk , overpriced
• Nefari messenger , overpriced

Bonus: Stitched

• Sarinda can't use eradicate anymore if she wants to play the theme effectively
• Stitched first lost a lot.... they took away ping , they took away death pact , they took away 1 recon option and -2 def ( -1 recon isnt bad tho)
• Stitched has no detect.... we can not even use ping to detect anymore
• Stitched Tyrant Over-priced
  
• Stitchling , Needs nerf
• Stitched anathema took a massive hit for no good reason

Inconsistancies:


Redundancies:

General Problems:

• With the change to make UD more melee based and cut off most of the ranged , UD has become solely a early game force .... and lost most of its late game potential.
  
• I did not list a lot of undercosted champions.....but this problem is game wide... every faction has a problem with undercosted champions.

• UD has no good way to deal with new Nokhan do.....as our only stun is through a attack.
• There are things like nefari reaper i don't know what to do about, they have a low nora cost...but they don't do anything other then some avg fighting.... which is powerful , but not OP.....and at the same time not balanced.
• Can we have a demon who can shatter ?

 

It's so cool that all people here have such a good grasp on balance, and that everyone is not trying to buff the things they play and nerf the ones they don't.


Wait, what.

Edit: I'm just too tired from working, this is a good initiative guys, good job!

 

No offence dude, but with the current state or ST and KF I dont think council members should talk about people having a good grasp on balance or the buffing and nerfing of things towards their own favor. I still love the council members even though ST is ridiculous because im sure it's not entirely the councils fault <3

 

Well, I've said it before, but you would be surprised on how much influence we acctually had on this whole process.

Edit: also, my favorite theme is lonx, remember that for future references.

 

I couldn't tell if you had a lot or little influence from your statement

 

That was acctually the point.
And just as a clarification, I wasnt addressing your post specifically, I just happened to see the thread and reply to it right after your suggestions.

 

1) flight no longer gives sentry, but most flying champions still have sentry, this was done to give the devs more flexibility in design.
2) redcap twins have immortality because without it they're actually awful runes.

 

I'm cringing a bit at a lot of the buff suggestions in this thread. The ability pricing model is off in general so I'd like to see that addressed (and its success measured by how it affects the champs that are clearly too strong) and then start a round of buffs that make champs fit into roles their themes need rather than just giving a cheap unit battledrum because it was OK a few weeks ago etc.

Really, I disagree fundamentally with the champ-specific nature of this thread and the "if this champ is going to cost as much as it does it should get X" comments. I think it would be more productive to have a general list of abilities that seem over/undercosted based on what's being played right now and also address specific abilities that work too well together or other sets that could work well together (inter-rune synergy rather than intra).

 

If you could make a list with that much detail, I'd throw my money at you.

 

I think I played you a few days ago using the phalanx haha. I see the solution to be Psychic Pings (literally killed most of my voil phalanx pretty quick) and spellspam

But the things that I encounter, by playing Voil phalanx, is that they are slow to buildup, and moves super slow, allowing the opponent to either fontgib me, or proceed with killing my shrine from the sides.

Still killable, but crazy good.

 

Considering that the new pox is less than a week old, I only have a short list of things that are clearly undercosted:

bomb ranks - right now rank 3 in any type is a no brainer since you're only paying four more than rank 1 to bring the bomb's damage close to full attack value after the DoTs are factored in.

resistance physical and magical - the other resistance abilities are matchup dependent so it makes sense for them to be cheap. These two are factors in near every game and should be factored as such. The gap between rank 2 and 3 should be significant.

surge:x. This shouldn't need any explanation. There are a few exceptions though, such as surgeoisoned and possibly shadows.

boost:x/battlemaster. Boost 3 has been handed out like candy with the revamp, and the range and defense bonus is significant. The damage bonus seems to add up to change 4/5 hit kills to 3/4. Most problematic is that it's always attached to summon-heavy themes. Battlemaster has the positioning disadvantage argument but you can usually end your turn with just the battlemaster and a bait champion together for a cheap survivability increase.

amplify:x. Frost is getting the most attention, but it's not the only one out there. Each type should be considered with a formula that scales with the amount of champions that have the ability.

The above are pretty clear to me, and I think you could put any pseudo-range ability on a watchlist as well. Hawk attack being the obvious example, but when you look at how a lot of ranged champions are costed and how much kiting actually happens in the game I think you could make a strong case against them all.

 

Balefire Knight is a Knight on a Nefari Dragon, yet has less DMG and Speed than a Nefari Dragon. IMO make him cost more and give him +1 Speed and + 3-4 damage.

 

I still need people to write for SL/SP/IS

 

I havent even seen Goblin Brute in play once, that said. I don't think I can comment on him. Seriously tho? Goblin Brute? LOL.

 

Looking at the patch notes, and my suggestions for KF. I think it's safe to say Gedden is on board with the community. I can't thank @Gedden enough for listening to us.
I'll update the list as we progress into week #2

 

Indeed, and whilst thankful, I do feel we're taking things a bit slower than we could/should. Good work though.

 

Lets talk about SP
Hyaenids Dogpile does not work, if there is an other racial in progress or what is that all about i dont know, the desribtion still says how dogpile works but it is not added to the attacked enemy champion. Elementals lack sinergy with Hyaenids.

Voil are ok if you run them with wings of steel cuz since all have just evasive 1 and no additional HP to cover the loss of extra ranks of evasive, they are too squishy and die really really fast. Also voil have no real healer as long as you dont start counting thet Moga as a Voil.

Slags are runnable, just the Ooze king slag is not. No matter wich Slag game i watched, he does not get deployed and there must be a reason for that. I would call it too expensive /not cost efficient.

Cyclops are fine, as well as Moga, what bothers me is not all Ghern have surge moga 1, i am not a fan of surge moga 2 since it is just too good, but at least surge 1 should be good for a champ you are alowed to run only ance in a Bg.

Main SP problem is Range all stuff has 3-4 or 4-5 range, not more, while all other factions have some serious range. 2nd biggest problem is lack of magic damage, if you count out the voil and the angel you have nothing. 3rd problem is tanks. I see lots of durable tanks in all other factions, sp got what? Name one tough SP tank!....... do it! See....

Lukrdian

 

I don't know man, it's good that he listens to us and all, but who was the "genius" that made the suggestion to remove Frost Accolyte from Vanguard?
It was the main reason it was ran in frost bgs, even if his nora tag was a bit high.
Every input the community gives must be taken with a big grain of salt, because frankly, most forum goers are pretty clueless. But hey, what can one do.