The Two Dominant Mechanics on this Patch

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bellagion, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    1. Damage multipliers
    2. Non-targeted damage
    By "damage multipliers" I mean anything that applies a percentage increase modifier to a champions damage output under select conditions. So not only things like elemental Amplify: X abilities, but also abilities like Soul Feast, Hunter: X or Renovate.

    By non-targeted damage I mean anything that does not require you to click on a specific champion to deal damage. Examples of this mechanic include things like cones/bombs, skewer/beams, pings, Stormread, Whirling Stones, Soultapped, Dark Favor, etc.

    Why are these bad?
    • Arms race of damage amp
    • Multipliers stack (Extispicer with amp out solo one-rounds an average 50 hp champ)
    • Many tank abilities are geared towards reducing the damage of attacks and attack abilities
    • DEF kinda doesn't matter
    • Percentage damage multiplication requires percentage damage reduction to keep up
    • Only Combat Awareness exists to deal with non-targeted damage sources at this point
    On-deploy effects should probably be on watch as well.
  2. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    Nerf Terraformer but don't shoebox him.
  3. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Jabs could probably stand to get a range but at what range would they still be usable? 8-10?
  4. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Terraformer, Jangar Arcanis, Goblin Spellkaiser, Hyaenid Stormreader, Firk Mindshredder: burn them with the fires of nerfing and as they burn I will dance in front of the fire as they are all shoeboxed to my great delight. Passive damage champions are cancerous excrement.

  5. noamkeren

    noamkeren I need me some PIE!

    Lol, i wish it too but dont u run mindshredder?
  6. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    no, and they are fine as they are.
  7. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    the reason spellkaiser is strong is because of regen with one with nora. stormreaders cost is still too low, i told them to give him more abilities or stats to increase it but they didnt listen. just increasing stormreaders cost without adding anything would likely shoebox him. the rest of the runes you mentioned are fine, maybe remove mountainer from terraformer and give him a weaker sandbag ability.
  8. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Just delete spellkaiser, stormreader, mindshredder, arcanis, and terraformer. Remove from game. Make them dissapear. Call it a quality of life improvement for the game.
  9. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    i like pinger and im mad they removed dmg shield.
  10. prymusedek

    prymusedek I need me some PIE!

    Agree with that. He wasn't even that hard to kill :eek:
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Stormreader was nerfed by reducing the effect of its ability. Instead of ALSO nerfing the cost at the same time we took it one step at a time.

    In no scenario was I about to give it a bunch more abilities (like Dogpile and a basic attack as you suggest) just for cost.

    Disagree. This makes no logical sense. Either it is undercosted or not. If it needs a cost increase, it will simply get one, instead of turning the champ into something else.
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    What do you think changed with this patch that made these mechanics dominant?
  13. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    There are just more and better champs with these mechanics. Like the ones that most immediately pop to mind are stormreader (of course) and the revised extispicer. So it seems like their effect is felt more in the wider metagame because they are seen more.
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Note that these are on my list to rework.
  15. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    I like no-targeted damage, like catalyst and alike.

    And as for "combat awareness" being the only counter measure, for future expacs an ability could be made to grande % or flat reduction to non targeted damage, instead of the hard counter CA is.
  16. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    I rarely run mindshredder and if I do it is to counter UD arrow eater bg's, majestic abuse, or IS super champ crap.
  17. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    Extispicer- buff to already strong/borderline psychic, better source of psychic agony

    Stormreader- strong non-targeted damage source

    Seism- non-targeted relic damage while multiple relics were changed to 20 hp

    Longer-term stuff:

    Dragons: very good deck that punishes attack-based decks pretty hard (w bonus + regen + Aerial Supremacy) while using non-targeted damage extensively

    Single stat inflation: (inevitable) introduction of more runes leads to higher possibility of stacking one stat, so damage that ignores DEF is more consistently useful than basic attacks

    Tough: rise in value due to use in countering non-targeted damage, but it itself is outscaled by multiplicative modifiers bc it's a flat reduction capped at 3
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's interesting because I was constantly being told Firk and Psychic were bad. And as soon as I buff Extispicer people start saying "already strong."

    That said, I have noticed that even a couple of "new" runes into the meta tends to give people an entirely different impression of the meta.

    This should have been reduced quite a bit with the Commander/Boost consolidation, but aside from the initial complaints (mostly re: Skeletons), it doesn't seem to have hindered things. It also makes me happy I nerfed Bombs/Skewers long ago (even tho there was a lot of complaints about those nerfs and how DEF was too strong afterwards and people kept right on playing those Bombs/Skewer champs).
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  19. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    I think psychics really were borderline before. But Extispicer is handy, and each combination of nerfs and buffs can have an unpredictable impact on the meta.

    But psychics aren't really so strong that people are playing them overwhelmingly like they were with stormreader/elec. They are just a good, competitive bg now.
    Leadrz likes this.
  20. Leadrz

    Leadrz I need me some PIE!

    I like psychic and yeah mr extispicer is back from the box.

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