The Your Story - End Game - The KTCAOP Story

Ok, want a hammer?

 

but what's yer vote? I wan't to try and not die so gaiaix and maybe you are gonna have to die to give me peace of mind.

 

I guess we wait a little for Gaiaix to give his defense? I think the kill should still safely go through without a hammer. He hasn't had a chance to explain the PT-Gav are both mafia thing.

 

Gav is at work, but yeah, we definitely want him to weigh in here.

 

So I'm rereading the posts by PT and Gaiaix in order, and it went mostly as follow:


PT has slight suspicion of Gaiaix for his play after Gav and Dagda mentioned that they though Gaiaix was scummy.
PT does a lone vote on Gaiaix after Dagda and I have our votes on Jad, and Jad, GabQ, and Gaiaix have their votes on me. Up until this point he hasn't mentioned any suspicion of me. (Gaiaix admitted he was suspicious of both myself and KingJad after the phase ended).
Gaiaix hops on board the Emries bandwagon pretty quickly. (Afterwards he says "to be honest I didn't see him as mafia"
Gaiaix is top of PT's suspect list, followed by Qucas and Gerb.
In response to my question about mafia dream-team, Gaiaix mentions that he would want "cover for dirty dealins"
Gaiaix claims cop in the middle of the night more or less randomly (there was some setup, I guess?).
Mass claim.
Qucas says PT is leaning town?
PT is suspicious of Qucas, Gaiaix, and KTC (priority on Qucas).
PT has by far the majority of his (negative) interactions with Gaiaix.
PT is caught in his lie.
PT mentions that Qucas, Gaiaix, or KTC should be looked at.
Gaiaix lists PT, Qucas, Jad, and Gav in the same tier of scumminess. <-------------- These are the main points of contention.
Gaiaix thinks all of them are likely mafia. <--------------

So the things I've noticed.
PT stated suspicion of Gaiaix pretty early. Either he picked an easy townie to make his lynch target, or he picked a scumbuddy to set up a potential bus.
PT and Gaiaix have a lot of interactions. It seems strange that a Mafia member would go out of their way to continuously hound a townie when he could let the townies do it for him. The underlying reason for mafia to interact with other players in the first place is to build credit. Normally a mafia player doesn't push a townie so hard. However, it makes more sense with Gaiaix-maf. Either PT can bus Gaiaix, or in the event PT dies, town maybe thinks better of Gaiaix. The fact that PT made such an aggressive fakeclaim tells me that his goal was to build his cred and attempt to fly under the scumdar as a town power role. So how does one achive this as mafia? The same was as town. Lynch/vote for mafia. Day 1 PT voted for Gaiaix.

PT voting for Gaiaix-town seems strange and achieves nothing (Gaiaix wasn't at risk). You don't really need to setup a mislynch on a townie this way. It's better to have votes on wagons to get work done. However, generally it's not worth it for mafia to put all their votes on active wagons, so a vote on Gaiaix-maf can set up a pretty good cred boost (Yo guys I knew he was mafia since the very beginning of the game, trust me guize). But then what mafia members had their hands in the cookie jar? The most suspicious players from you guys's perspective who had their votes on the wagons were myself and Gaiaix. Gaiaix join as the third vote on me. I joined the Emries wagon temporarily on, I think, the third vote. Gaiaix joins afterwards on the fourth vote right after me. Qucas gets in on Emries as the 6th vote (7 is hammer). There's not much to say about Qucas's vote pattern aside from he's a follower.

So if my interpretations of PT were correct, then the intent was not a bad idea. I think the problems started popping up when Gaiaix actually was caught in town's sight. Between claiming doc last second as a scummy player or claiming doc in the middle of the night as a scummy player, the latter is the safer choice because you can play it off as a newb player mistake. Mafia didn't count on that leading to a mass claim though. But PT claimed a power role. He waited as long as he could before having to name targets for his night actions, only to be foiled by Gav. If he had his way, I'm sure he wanted to do a combination of the following: kill me, kill Gerb, kill Gav. He wouldn't need to night kill me, because he was trying to play up for a lynch on myself (constantly reminding that two vigs is strange and that I'm the more suspicious of the two due to cop innocent read on the other vig claim). PT mentions his suspicions which is important, because generally mafia mention at least one of their teammates in the mafia list because it makes town more careful of trusting the players on the list, but because usually there are more town on the list it makes it slightly harder to guess at which one is scum.

So the best thing at that point, was to try benefit in some way from his death, by helping his teammates. One of which I would guess is Gaiaix. If Gaiaix is mafia, I would look to Jad or KTC (I can just kill Jad, and Gav can block KTC). Qucas is the next option for scumbuddy, and I would guess it points to KTC? Which would seem pretty unfair for mafia.

So this is me assuming that PT doesn't have really shallow mafia play (formulaic lynch town, etc.). The fact that he didn't claim VT says that he probably wasn't playing shallow, and going for the more high-risk high-reward option. Coupled with my reads of Gaiaix's scumminess for the majority of the game (Dagda was suspicious before he died, same with Emries, Gav also was suspicious before, not so much right now after the claim, but at the very least my suspicions are grounded in evidence).

 

Okay, I've caught up after like 4 pages, and PT was flipped Mafia after a Vig shot from Napalm. And to top that off, I'm on the top of the lynch list, almost at the hammer actually. I think the best defense I can argue would be to address each of Xinde's points individually, starting with the Chain of Events:

PT has slight suspicion of Gaiaix for his play after Gav and Dagda mentioned that they though Gaiaix was scummy.
This is more of a focus on PT than myself, and him clearly jumping on a wagon to off me.

PT does a lone vote on Gaiaix after Dagda and I have our votes on Jad, and Jad, GabQ, and Gaiaix have their votes on me. Up until this point he hasn't mentioned any suspicion of me. (Gaiaix admitted he was suspicious of both myself and KingJad after the phase ended).
I voted for Xinde because, as I stated, I felt his rampant posting was Mafia than Town. I changed this later into a "Zealous Townie" thinking.

Gaiaix hops on board the Emries bandwagon pretty quickly. (Afterwards he says "to be honest I didn't see him as mafia"
I never thought Emries was Mafia, I jumped on the wagon to pressure Emries into doing something, a move which helped him get hammered. I'm not exactly feeling the "Scumminess" here, since multiple people did this.
Gaiaix is top of PT's suspect list, followed by Qucas and Gerb.
Either PT suspects me for real, or it's a Mafia (revealed just now, not at the time) targeting one of his own to deflect suspicion. I don't think I need to argue this one.

In response to my question about mafia dream-team, Gaiaix mentions that he would want "cover for dirty dealins"
If I were Mafia, I would want Gerb and Emries'.....quirks as cover for my own mafia-ness. I was speaking hypothetically, "Dream Team", and this is moot since obviously Emries wasn't mafia and Gerb is the Cop. This was speaking of a dream game, not this one.


Gaiaix claims cop in the middle of the night more or less randomly (there was some setup, I guess?).
I claimed Medic, and I did it for a reason: I'm not too great with cryptic stuff, ie asking who to target without giving it away that I was Medic, so I just said it. I didn't die, and even if I was targeted I had Self-Guard if I wanted to. This is when I discovered Role Blocker Gaverion, and reported it to Town ASAP. Also, by claiming at night, I helped to influence Night Powers and the Night Kill, something I was actually going for.

Mass claim.
Yep.

Qucas says PT is leaning town?
This puts Qucas in a more poor light than myself.


PT is suspicious of Qucas, Gaiaix, and KTC (priority on Qucas).
I'd say this is PT trying to get me lynched, even if I wasn't the focus of the point. KTC is a troll lynch target, so he doesn't count.


PT has by far the majority of his (negative) interactions with Gaiaix.
I won't deny this, but when I prompted PT for better targets than myself, I am backed by Xinde.

PT is caught in his lie.
Yeah, pretty much.

PT mentions that Qucas, Gaiaix, or KTC should be looked at.
Scummy PT trying to deflect attention off of himself, to the 3 people who he was suspicious of earlier. Again, a deflection attempt that meshes with his previous list of scummies.

Gaiaix lists PT, Qucas, Jad, and Gav in the same tier of scumminess. <-------------- These are the main points of contention.
I correctly guess that PT is Mafia, and it makes me more suspicious? I GUESSED based on the evidence, most notably the lie. The others are addressed below.

Gaiaix thinks all of them are likely mafia. <--------------
Actually I said PT, Qucas OR KingJad (not both, leaning the Umbrella Man), and Gaverion.
PT was caught lying, so I think I am justified in my suspicion.
Gaverion roleblocked a supposed medic on REALLY shitty grounds, AND claimed Miller to guard himself from the Cop. Potential ploy right there, and one that can't be disproven outside of death.
KingJad and Qucas are BOTH VT's, or claim to be, and I think one of them is lying. This game's flavor is wacky, and I don't think Loy would give out 2 of the same flavor VT. Qucas jumps on the Umbrella Wagon to hide his Mafia role with Emries' memory. Atleast that is how I look at it.


Will post more in a sex, gotta do a chore or two.

 

Yo, you commented on the events and not the analysis. I tried to separate the two.

 

Like I said, I will post more after the chores, which I just finished. I'm writing my take now.

 

That's a good point you bring up. I forgot to go into detail about this. The idea of the question is to get a feel for a few things: Who does this player respect? How does he view said players? What is his preferred style when playing as mafia? So it's pretty relevant. "dirty dealins" is exactly what I think is going on here.

Yeah, the cop thing was a typo. Influencing night powers is more a pro-mafia action rather than a pro-town action in most cases.

Congratulations, you correctly guessed a mafia member that was giftwrapped and placed under your Christmas tree. The point of contention here is that think it's likely that Gav and PT are on the same team.

The specifics don't really matter. I was too lazy to write out the details because it's focuses more on Gav/PT.

But yeah, aside from correcting the one mistake, it was kind of pointless to comment on this part? Like I said, I tried to separate events from analysis. I tried to keep the event log down to the bare minimum of events that I thought were important.

 

A clarification to my wall since I must not have written it out while thinking it:

Even though PT says he's suspicious of you, he never makes a serious attempt to start/encourage a wagon on you, especially when you were under consideration. It's mostly just "I think Gaiaix is suspicious."

Also the chances that mafia would single out the doc of all people on day 1 for their "suspicions" is pretty unlikely. He's made it a point to interact with you for some reason, and it's honestly your fault in some way or another (for being maf, or for being a towny that is easy to lynch).

 

Continuing on with Xinde's analysis of the Chain of Events:

PT stated suspicion of Gaiaix pretty early. Either he picked an easy townie to make his lynch target, or he picked a scumbuddy to set up a potential bus.

Obviously I will say it was the former, since I was an active poster in the beginning and wasn't leading the group (Xinde). If you randomly picked someone to target without knowledge, you could target based on posting count, but DON'T kill the "Town Leader". Plus I was gunning for PT last Mafia game, just because I don't trust people in hats. This game it held water, now didn't it?

PT and Gaiaix have a lot of interactions. It seems strange that a Mafia member would go out of their way to continuously hound a townie when he could let the townies do it for him. The underlying reason for mafia to interact with other players in the first place is to build credit. Normally a mafia player doesn't push a townie so hard. However, it makes more sense with Gaiaix-maf. Either PT can bus Gaiaix, or in the event PT dies, town maybe thinks better of Gaiaix. The fact that PT made such an aggressive fakeclaim tells me that his goal was to build his cred and attempt to fly under the scumdar as a town power role. So how does one achive this as mafia? The same was as town. Lynch/vote for mafia. Day 1 PT voted for Gaiaix.

PT justifies his suspicion based on two things, the previous game (Comissar's PoxMafia) and my suspicion list. IF I have added more this game than the last, it's because I have a power role this round (Last I was a VT), and was trying to stir some discussion to find a good medic target early on. My list at the time was Xinde, Jad, and Gaverion (MILLER REVEALED), and I feel that it still holds up aside from dropping Xinde for PT. I can't really dispute it's effective for Mafia to hound one of their own as cover, but I feel PT's vote was made on poor grounds and is just a reputation hit.


PT voting for Gaiaix-town seems strange and achieves nothing (Gaiaix wasn't at risk). You don't really need to setup a mislynch on a townie this way. It's better to have votes on wagons to get work done. However, generally it's not worth it for mafia to put all their votes on active wagons, so a vote on Gaiaix-maf can set up a pretty good cred boost (Yo guys I knew he was mafia since the very beginning of the game, trust me guize). But then what mafia members had their hands in the cookie jar? The most suspicious players from you guys's perspective who had their votes on the wagons were myself and Gaiaix. Gaiaix join as the third vote on me. I joined the Emries wagon temporarily on, I think, the third vote. Gaiaix joins afterwards on the fourth vote right after me. Qucas gets in on Emries as the 6th vote (7 is hammer). There's not much to say about Qucas's vote pattern aside from he's a follower.

As above, I feel PT's vote was randomly done, picking a target just to target, AND it has created late game distrust, so he accomplished his objective there as Mafia. I DID join the Emries wagon, but it was an information press that failed because he said basically nothing upon his arrival. I will admit I've been riding on Xinde's decisions this game, since I feel he is smart and is making good choices (nice picks, pointed out PT lie like lightning, wagoned on Emries at a good time with a good reason, etc.)
I won't address Qucas since this is about defending myself and not slandering him.


So if my interpretations of PT were correct, then the intent was not a bad idea. I think the problems started popping up when Gaiaix actually was caught in town's sight. Between claiming doc last second as a scummy player or claiming doc in the middle of the night as a scummy player, the latter is the safer choice because you can play it off as a newb player mistake. Mafia didn't count on that leading to a mass claim though. But PT claimed a power role. He waited as long as he could before having to name targets for his night actions, only to be foiled by Gav. If he had his way, I'm sure he wanted to do a combination of the following: kill me, kill Gerb, kill Gav. He wouldn't need to night kill me, because he was trying to play up for a lynch on myself (constantly reminding that two vigs is strange and that I'm the more suspicious of the two due to cop innocent read on the other vig claim). PT mentions his suspicions which is important, because generally mafia mention at least one of their teammates in the mafia list because it makes town more careful of trusting the players on the list, but because usually there are more town on the list it makes it slightly harder to guess at which one is scum.

If we are to assume PT will put a Mafia on the list alongside towns, that means 3 people: Myself, Qucas, and KTC. If we are to assume ONE is Mafia, I would say it would be Qucas since KTC is mia to the extreme. Qucas is under suspicion from me due to his VT claim that mirrors Emries', a point I talked about in my reasoning for him on my list of mafia, and has been for quite a while now. On page 38 Xinde lists his scuminess list as "Jad, Gaiaix555, Gav, Qucas, PT" IN ORDER, so even he thinks Qucas, Gav, and PT are more scummy than me (at that point in time). He was right on PT, but his list changed to Me, Gerb, Gav in scuminess later on.


So the best thing at that point, was to try benefit in some way from his death, by helping his teammates. One of which I would guess is Gaiaix. If Gaiaix is mafia, I would look to Jad or KTC (I can just kill Jad, and Gav can block KTC). Qucas is the next option for scumbuddy, and I would guess it points to KTC? Which would seem pretty unfair for mafia.

I agree that upon imminent death, the person in question will try and give a team-buff using their dying breath. I can't convince you I'm Town, so I don't have much of a defense here, unless I live through today and Gerb checks me (I guard him, and don't get blocked). I've stated my opinion on Qucas already, and I think him being Mafia is VERY likely, moreso than Jad. KTC is still not in my crosshair, so I won't bother. You ommited Gaverion, who I feel is Mafia for the following reasons: Miller ensures either the Cop won't check him, or will get the Mafia result if he does. Either way, he appears Mafia, and by claiming Miller he can use it as cover. My second reason is that he Roleblocked the only person to claim Medic. IF Gav is town, why would he block me? His reasoning, and I can quote him here, is "I think you can understand why I did not make a full claim at first. I DID target gaia last night. I thought his claim was an attempt to get an actual medic to counterclaim. The first night I targeted dagda.". This makes LOTS of sense, and IS a good plan. Except no one counterclaimed medic, so if I AM Mafia trying to find the Medic by fakeclaiming, I failed. Blocking me had no basis and only serves to ensure I can't protect someone that night. I'd also like to say that we Vig shot PT on his lie, a slip up of just one letter. Qucas did basically the SAME THING on page 26, where he says there were 2 Millers when he meant Masons. PLUS in the same page Qucas does the following, and this is major in my opinion:

1.Reiterates that the Masons are town.
2. Disputes the 2 Vig's on Town Side claim, much like PT did.....over and over.
3. Disputes my Medic claim, on the grounds of Self-Target clause. Draws suspicion to the only person claiming Medic.
4. Tries to bring suspicion BACK to KingJad based on the VT (Not Umbrella VT) claim.
5. Says PurpleTop's posts HAVE BEEN GOOD, WITH NOTHING SUSPICIOUS ABOUT THEM. PT flipped Mafia, this is as scummy as it gets.


So this is me assuming that PT doesn't have really shallow mafia play (formulaic lynch town, etc.). The fact that he didn't claim VT says that he probably wasn't playing shallow, and going for the more high-risk high-reward option. Coupled with my reads of Gaiaix's scumminess for the majority of the game (Dagda was suspicious before he died, same with Emries, Gav also was suspicious before, not so much right now after the claim, but at the very least my suspicions are grounded in evidence).

I really don't have a defense here: Emries and Dada were suspicious of me, and I can't just say they weren't.


At this point in time, with my case presented, I would like EVERYONE, specifically those that want ME lynched, to review QUCAS and his mid-game posts supporting PT and damning everyone BUT PT. My word is nothing in this game, but I feel that since I have been suspicious of Qucas for a LONG time now, the evidence presented, and everything else said, that he should be at the very LEAST considered as a lynch target alongside me.

Thereby, I:

VOTE: QUCAS

 

To the above:

Just past the beginning I stated that I wasn't looking to slander Qucas, and only to defend myself. Obviously this kinda didn't happen, but I JUST noticed the "PT is good and isn't suspicious AT ALL" post when I was reviewing the entire game, making my defense case. Apologies for that, but I will remain firm in what I stated.

 

One FINAL point, and then I leave my fate to the Town:

On page 26, where Qucas slips up on the 2 Millers/2 Masons thing and defends Pt/Damns everyone else, PT rushes to his aide after Xinde threatens Qucas with Lynch saying:

AT OR NEAR THE TOP of the list. This holds up to the "Mafia puts up Mafia" trick, and shows Qucas and PT defending each other. With PT's flip, I don't think I need to say anymore.

 

quote the post?

 

@Loyaute How much time remains in this phase?

Quoted as per Xinde's request:

 

About 9 hours.

 

Thank you Loy, I wanted to make sure everyone has time to review my case.

 

I still read that as he still thought Qucas was scummy.

Also, my reason for voting for Emries was because it was dumb to want to lynch the Mason claim.

As for that quote... Damn, you are right, didn't really think too much about it at that point. I still think you are scummy as all getout for thinking Gav would bus the living daylights out of PT like that.

But I'm fine with getting the vote back onto Qucas. I still think you smell funny, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with regards to PT interactions because the Qucas quote is more concrete than my guesswork.

Unvote: Gaiaix555
Vote: Qucas

Not sure how likely it is for enough people to get on to change the vote though.

 

Thank you Xinde. As I said, I didn't think anything of the quotes until I checked THE WHOLE GAME to prove my points, and it didn't mean much until PT flipped Mafia MUCH later.

 

On the topic of Gav, even if he's mafia and super-bussed PT, bussing his teammate was not worth it in the slightest because he gained pretty much nothing aside from a dead teammate and a little bit of town cred. If push comes to shove I'm more than willing to lynch Gav. I'll think of who I'm shooting tomorrow or something.

My options are (most likely):

Jad
KTC
Gav
Gaiaix

In order of priority without knowing how Qucas flips. I will mention who I am targetting in the interests of working with the cop. I doubt mafia would use their nightkill on the same target I choose, because all that does is make my claim seem fake at the cost of them wasting their kill. If it does happen, then I would also consider that maybe my target was mafia, but they wanted to clean up the kill and not reveal anything as a bonus. Seems much more reasonable for them to attempt a real kill on someone they feel is actually worth killing.