Theme Adjustments #1 - Wings and Hyaenids

Just in case I'm not reading this properly, Wings are getting cost reductions?

 

Hyaenids attribute focus is? Low everything + dot / debuff / dogpile. The 3 D's.

 

Seems like it. I wonder if the newest wings will get a cost reduction, since surely the devs. did not price those abilities at 100% more, just to go and reduce them.

 

I know boost is being changed, but is it really necessary for them to all be beasts?

 

I will quote myself from another thread:

What if Sigils were reworked to include Flight to free up some design space? As it is many of the Wings are bland because Flight is locking up a ability slot. It also helps prevent situations of auto-winning on some maps like the Voil used to.

It would look something like:

 

How competitive are those themes*?

For the Hyaenids. At first glance Serf to the Djinn and Dogpile look somewhat contrary:
You either want as many Hyaenids out to maximize Dogpile, or you want to have both Djinns and
Hyaenids out for Serf to the Djinn. At second glance, you'll notice that almost all Djinn can have Surge: Hyaenid,
so they are not all that contrary after all. Then there is Cackle -- a strong ability, but also one that
interferes with using Dogpile as much as one can.

Therefore my question to those who know better than I do**: How rounded does the Hyaenid Theme feel?
Is there a strong synergy between those abilities, and is it fun to play?







* -- I can't tell just by looking at them.
** -- Since I have no clue.

 

- Also when people worry about Wings...they really mean "Scarlet Wing" ...but you prolly know that. Not the other 80% of the wings that people can't remember the names too. And when they talk about the synergy of Wings...they mean running 2x Scarlet wings together.

p.s. Don't buff Scarlet , buff the bad ones...but don't buff them in a binary way...(stats etc) power should come from creative sigil use and thanks for looking at the reasonable costing of said sigils.

 

Amber Wing:

The problems with this rune were discussed pretty extensively already in the IS forums. The biggest takeway seemed to be that it would get Grant: Magical Aura as its new Sigil bonus. This would result in no change of its Sigil cost but could result in a cost reduction if Arrow Eater was made its 2nd path ability, resulting in a base value of 80.

Amethyst Wing:
Amethyst Sigil currently costs 8 points. Vaporize costs 9 points. Going for the ½ cost methodology (and conservatively rounding up to 5 points) would make this rune have a base cost of 76.

Cerulean Wing:
Cerulean Sigil gives Bold and costs 6 points. Bold costs 8 points. Going with the 50% metric would result in this unit being priced at 76 points.

Emerald Wing:
Emerald Sigil gives Damage Shield – Electricity 3 and Teleport 1 for 10 points. Damage Shield Electricity 3 and Teleport 1 already cost 10 points. So the cost reduction to 5, would shave this unit from 84 to 79.

Ivory Wing:
Ivory Sigil gives +2 Def and Illuminate which adds up to 10 points. Ivory Sigil itself costs 4 points, so this would result in a 1 point increase in its cost to 73.

Obsidian Wing:
Obsidian Sigil gives +2 damage and Opportunistic Assault for 4 points. Opportunistic Assault and +2 damage add up to 12 points, resulting in a 2 point increase in Obsidian Wing’s cost to 82.

Platinum Wing:
Platinum Sigil gives +1 Max Range and Impairing Feedback for 4 points. Impairing Feedback alone costs 8 points and this would result in an increase in the cost of Platinum Wing above its 79 point cost.

Scarlet Wing:
Scarlet Sigil gives +1 Damage and Attack: Fire for 4 nora. Stat bonus: Damage +1 costs 2 nora and Attack: Fire costs 0. This would result in a reduction in cost to 1 nora for Scarlet Sigil, resulting in Scarlet Wing’s base cost being reduced to 66.

So on the whole it would result in cost reductions, but for three wings it would be a cost increase. This is a bit of a shame as neither Ivory Wing nor Platinum Wing are seen in competitive bgs, and even Obsidian Wing is a bit borderline. I also am pretty sure Scarlet Wing does not need a cost reduction. Markoth's suggestion would help this a bit, I think.

 

As a side note, I dislike flying based themes as on some maps they have a massive advantage. Strig, Imps, Voils, they've all done this. Is there a way this can be tackled outside of changing the maps? I am specifically thinking of stuff like the IS map with 5 fonts, where from the middle font a flyer can threaten the outer ones by doing nothing other than "being".

 

Impairing Feedback should probably be 4-5 nora max IMO. At best it makes subsequent range attacks cost +1 AP on the attacking champ for a few turns. I would rather have dodge 9/10 times. Maybe that is just me though.

 

Mmm. My concern would be that some might just become splashable meta units (as some already are).

 

No love for skywings.

 

I would kind of prefer there to be more splashable meta units for all factions rather than less. Though I guess that comes down to design philosophy. Do you want meta to be viable or not?

 

That would certainly help Platinum Wing and other champions with Impairing Feedback. Sokolov, is this something worth considering?

 

- Burn is right, and I edited my original to reflect. Learn from Scarlet.... power shouldn't come from meta standard but rather synergy and sigil effective use...but careful not to make all the power come from gimmick either. Tough job to balance..good luck Sok

 

Kind-of confused.
Sigil abilities cost 50% less than the abilities in your example proposal.
However the sigil abilities pass out the ability to nearby units, in many cases 3 units, thus passing out 400% of the ability (counting the unit itself) but you only pay for 50%?

 

Yes and no. Sigils only pass out the ability to other champs for a single round. Ability costs are priced assuming a champion has the ability until it dies. So the value of passing out the abilities is much reduced from the normal value.

 

This.