This had a few runes missing that I filled in with Sealer/Flamehurler/MoV, perhaps Northern Cross Cardinal and some other runes that I liked to use were there that I may have sharded. Still FF is a solid theme, but as it is Trolls hinge off a lot of other units. I don't particularly like Trolls being clustered with Constructs however with Valdaci being implemented I think those units will make bring some interesting stuff to the table. Even still at that point it would be a Troll/Rock Defiance/Construct FF theme and have a lot of moving parts. I have more splits than FF. There's one bg I got a lot of hate for that I won't post, Loss of Life was the only dmg source that is able to deal dmg over 1 once everything has been put into play. There's been even more runes that have been released that looking at it now deserve the slot over what I have in.
I made a sp/is gritmaw bg, i like it a lot: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/trolls-sp.24041/
Until there are more Trolls or even Rock Defiance I will sub in other runes that I prefer, I'm not even partial to every champion that has Rock Defiance. War-Enchanted Groble can be a solid pick over a few Trolls which pushes Trolls towards a Construct bg. Rock Defiance can be Troll or Construct since a lot of the spells/relics/equips being picked are usually ToV/Tactical Manual or the normal IS rune kit Instill Panic, Bane Blast, Stasis Field, Earthshaker, Vial...etc. Constructs having more runes to synergize with can carry a Troll theme but it consists of very few Trolls, a Stonearm Sash and a Hymn/Heartstone. They need something that pushes them away from Constructs, Sealer just hinges them closer to the Detonate/Absorb Meta. I'm hoping they can get a little more identity, perhaps more elementals with Rock Defiance. I'd prefer another C/UC/R rune, an Exo would be nice for maybe a new mechanic into Trolls, but a new Legendary may be another cooling off period for Trolls.
Biggest Troll is Rock Guardian not gaining Rock Defiance once it is in Golem Form and that Earth Golem does not have Rock Defiance as base. I've always wanted Rock Guardian to gain Rock Defiance, and then when Constructs received rock defiance I figured it would have been added in. When Sepulcher of Kings was released I really Really wanted Golem Form to grant Rock Defiance, but still nothing. Taking a look at all the other form abilities Rock Form is absolutely the most underwhelming for something that should be in a theme hands down. https://poxbase.com/deck/c2=c2+cj4c66cpVcoOc51c5Ucoicjm Here's all the units with Form abilities to compare with Golem Form, it is lacking in regards to the other abilities.
Inspired by this old thread, i thought hey lets get all Grintmaws and test them. So here we go, forging, poxboxing and voila got them. omg they are sooooooooo BAD! how can they be so bad? They got weak healing, no movement, no race/class synergy, no defense abilities, no equipments, no AP gen, no detection........ most of their upgrade choices are so wrong it hurts my eyes. rock defiance is pretty cool, except it only works on basic attacks, so atm its almost worthless. 1 of 3 fights maybe there is someone using basic attacks mainly. Atleast they work nice with rockforger and earth elemental, so guess ill cheat and use elementals to do the main work and call it my troll deck
Does anyone run Barb Guardian with Grints? Seems like nexus aura and shroud would work real well with RD. Trolls seem kind of week w/o disarm , detect, or healing though. Also why did the shaman lose dampen? Unneeded nerf imho.
Gonna try some later, but atm still trying to get elemental+troll to work, so far its a bit fun and frustrating at the same time havent tested nexus area, wonder if it would trigger rock defiance, doubt it since i think only basic attack do? But anything to make them survive a bit more. Detect is a must with all these KF stealthing units and trick decks .-) so atm using both guard tower + unobstructed view.
Pretty sure nexus aura does trigger RD. The problem is that you'll want to run a stone arm sash to proctor RD for the Guardian. Also, may want to consider running Increase Gravity to prevent those pesky relocates.
Ah thanks, yeah it did trigger if i had stone arm sash on barb guardian and was hit by a basic attack. poor player triggered 4 times per hit, a small cluster of trolls with a barb guard. 13 wins, 17 losses in the first 30 games with grintmaws as main source, hard to not remove them and use the normal units, but they are fun still.
Grintmaw Bouncer Rating: 1* Class: Wizard Usage: No idea how to use him really Upgrades: They are just wrong, having both regen2+3 and Tough in U2 option is bad. having improve range for race/class as troll/warrior is bad. Having seismic leap + hold the line + Bounce, did someone got bored and just picked up some random abilities and toss it on him? Common Builds: 80 Nora - Seismic Leap + Tough 2 79 Nora - Improve Range + Regeneration 2 Synergies: none Grintmaw Flamehurler Rating: 1,5* Class: Wizard Usage: Short range fire thrower that adds nora to your enemy. Upgrades: Option-1 Here you have 3 intresting picks, hostile, logistics: speed and enrage. all 3 are good, i end up using Enrage mostly. Option-2 Burn. Common Builds: 68 Nora - Enrage + Burn Synergies: none Grintmaw Gravitone Rating: 2* Class: Brute Usage: 2x2 shortrange magic damage unit, he has the OP range of 1-4 + kinetic impulse that adds 2damage. so he does alot of damage if you can body slam the enemy into a rock also. Sadly he has no defense abilities so Resilient is kinda worthless on him. Upgrades: Did only test slam+resilient, why would i want my enemies to move away from my short ranged trolls? Impassioned is useless, even if it had been -10nora compaired to Resilient i dont think i would have used it. Common Builds: 72 Nora - Slam + Resilient Synergies: Beer Resilient works nice with Barbarian guardian + nexus aura. Grintmaw Magnificent Rating: 1* Class: None Usage: No idea, stone barrage is nice i guess. Mirrored is ok if you have other defenses to add on? Just too expensive for 2x2 mirrored meat shield. Upgrades: U1 - 3 different stones to throw at the enemy, i like stone barrage, but Rock Slide is nice to make your enemies grounded for 3 turns. U2 - Rock Front, Trail: rock or Tremor. Common Builds: 77 Nora - Stone Barrage + Rock Front Synergies: None Grintmaw Rockslinger Rating: 2* Class: Brute Usage: Short range slammer, he will be onerounded by your enemy though so keep him away and relocate/swap for attacking. He has absorb, so they need to use melee, which they sometimes forget. Tried with different blood frenzy, but found its best to keep him cheap as possible since he dies fast. Upgrades: Common Builds: 75 Nora - Blood Frenzy + Slam Synergies: Beer Grintmaw Sealer Rating: 2.5* Class: Wizard Usage: Builds barricade to limit attack space or be used for slam. Also the only cheap meat shield which is bad since he must stay around for barricades. But please someone remove Reckless blast from him. Upgrades: Common Builds: 51 Nora - Magic Nova + charged barricade Synergies: Slam units Grintmaw Shaman Rating: 1.5* Class: Shaman Usage: Weak long range acid damage, Slow moving healer with starshine. Upgrades: Common Builds: 76 Nora Heal mass 3 + Heal champion 2 Synergies: Grintmaw Singer Rating: 0.5* Class: Bard Usage: No idea, this champ just dont work, super expensive meatshield? Upgrades: Common Builds: 81 Nora - Distracting Blows + Farshot Synergies:
Yeah, I agree with your assessment. Shaman needs to get Dampen back, lose lethargic, and have shroud as an upgrade. Bouncer should be range 1-2 and have nexus aura. Sealer is my favorite champ for grints. So many fun things you can do with barrier. Flame Hurler's Nora Induction should be retooled. Instead of giving nora each attack, it should give a lump-sum on deploy. Singer is silly. It amazes me that it can be so expensive and yet bring nearly nothing to the table. Lose 12 nora. Gravitone--not a bad unit--synergies well with improve range on bouncer. Magnificent--I don't run it so no opinion. Marsh Troll is a great rune that I always include. Still cant see a Grint deck being viable w/o Bastion. Also, the lack of champ based detect, shatter, or decent healing makes deck building challenging.
I need to get some more games under my belt again...been a while. Although splits are the way to go with Trolls. I usually prefer playing trolls in splits so naturally there would be less trolls/ Rock Defiance on base and so in IS/X I would grab units that support the bg as a whole. Then when making FF I always found running x2 of trolls was more of a handicap with the options available to IS, since the rest of the meta is balanced around those runes. FF Grintmaw is subpar imo but not horrible. They need a healing deficient troll that has a buffer on base so that they do not need to rely on other themes to maximize Rock Defiance. Problem with trolls is what happened with Dampen, they work best by reducing incoming dmg which can be used other themes. Idt its as simple as giving Nexus Aura to Trolls, and even Defender/Shroud is a lot for a unit with Rock Defiance, which is essentially +1Def & static+1HP when the unit is attacked. Personally I'd rather see trolls break into other themes like what was done with Constructs; any new runes for constructs potentially benefit Trolls. Excited for Sonic Amp decks which will be more Construct/Troll with dwarfs as a sub module. Yes...it's a Spare Parts bg, also waiting for Identity Crisis to get fixed to use with the new runes coming out
Rock Defiance is only working in a few games, the current meta aint using basic attacks. its bombs, cones, novas, auras, nexus gems or just some split gimmick to win. or superchamps, so many trying to use splits to create superchamps to win, and rock defiance aint so good against 40+ damage monsters. The amount of counters to relic did surprice me though, it was sad to deploy relics vs fw,ud,st Also alot of counters to summoned units are popular which my poor Rock forger noticed And yes you need to get more fights under your belt
Soulsphere and Focused Nexus/Nexus Aura are the best abilities for Rock Defiance to counter those mechanics. Other than that, grabbing units with anti-one-rounding abilities; Spontaneous Regeneration, One with Nora, Bodyguard. These are best found outside of IS which is why I don't find it useful to run x2 of every troll when I certainly wouldn't in a split. Nothing wrong with players creating superchamping and making the game a hurdle and challenging to play, despite one sided it may feel some times. Bombs, Auras, Cones and not attacking has always been the bane of Rock Defiance but there's still enough in IS to help them deal with all that. Declare Target from Northern Cross Cardinal is really good for Trolls; let me play some games today and report on that. I guess I will play FF since this is in the IS forums.
