Turn by turn based games are dead?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chickenpox2, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    One of the main problem with pox is that not many turn by turn games exist now as they did 13 years ago.

    I mean sure Age of empire still exist today but it not as popular as RPG/MMORPG , Moba, puzzle, fps and other type of games.

    I hope they consider closing pox and creating a new game which is similar to Moba type game but with the same abilities
     
  2. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    Uhm, I don't think a Pox with the moba mechanics would work honestly.

    Do you have any idea of how many moba exist now? And how many get played? Pox has still a lot of potential, but there are too much bugs at the moment.

    Enjoy this game till it last
     
  3. soulmilk

    soulmilk I need me some PIE!

    In my opinion, turn based games are on a rise again.
    Card games (Both online and physical) are massive.
    Board games are becoming more and more mainstream.
    There are tons of turn based games played on smartphones.

    The game industry is changing.
    The generations that played old school games when younger are the new game makers now.
    Just last year, one of the biggest games was a collect-a-thon platformer. Those haven't been big since Gamecube and PS2.
     
    Fentum and MaruXV like this.
  4. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    hmmm....board game popularity has never been higher.

    i don't think the fact that pox is a board game(essentially) is a slight against it, by all means it should be a boon.

    even in the mobile market look at fire emblem heroes, a turn based board game styled game that is vastly more popular than the majority of it's peers.

    pox has a number of issues, too many to really elaborate on in detail, from absolutely no marketing, to lack of support, to stagnation, to "improvements" like the new client that made the game worse, to constantly selling out to sony that results in the game nearly dieing every time, etc, etc.

    the vast majority of early players like myself started playing pox because they saw an ad that claimed pox was going to have a million dollar tournament, the one and only bit of marketing pox has ever had that worked and it brought in thousands of players....of course that tournament was a lie, but it worked all the same lol.

    after getting those thousands of players they've had a dedicated fan base that they've failed to improve upon and have literally done everything in their power to drive off over the last 10 years.
     
    soulmilk likes this.
  5. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    Turn based strategy games are definitely not dead. Into the Breach just came out for a single player option.
     
  6. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    x-com / ftl-into the breach / atlas reactor - insida / age of wonders series / faeria-duelyst / ...

    boardgames also are pretty expanding

    turn based has never been healthier i think, because its taking the good things from the past and adapting to a more enjoyable/ less " its like a work" module that was pretty hard back in time...
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I think if Pox came out today it'd be quite a lot more popular since the climate has changed significantly (assuming it had better UI/Client than it currently does, of course), but an old game like this with many problems isn't going to see a resurgence. My hope was that the new client could have been a gateway towards revival, but unfortunately, it was beset by many problems. In general, most games have a much higher ceiling now because the potential market is so much larger and no longer completely dominated by a few large MMOs. With the addition of many out of the box tools, it's probably one of the best times in the history of gamedev to be an indie developer (at least on PC).

    Other games of this type that were around during that time really didn't last very long either.

    StarChamber launched in 2003, won "Best Indie Game" in 2005, and launched a few expansions between 2004 and 2007 and was basically unsupported for the next 5 years before it closed in 2012. (Also bought by Sony st some point.)

    Pox, at least, has managed to outlive almost every game from that era with the exception of ones like Runescape (which actually released mobile clients recently!).

    As I alluded to, I would like to do a post mortem when the time is appropriate so I can tell you all in more detail because one of the things that annoys me right now is people making false statements or making laughable assumptions about what did and did not happen.

    Pox's peak was after SOE, during Maljaran Frontier when I had recently joined SOE. I know it's fun to bash on SOE because the game declined and they basically abandoned it, but they really did try pouring millions of investment into the game. This was the time when Pox probably had the most resources it's ever had, with 3 full-time designers and a marketing budget. And it showed since MF was the best selling expansion and Pox had its highest number of users during this period.

    Unfortunately, it also came after a year of stagnation building the FB client, which failed to do anything, so it's reasonable to wonder what would have happened had that worked or the time/money been spent on other things, but it's still true that the Maljaran block was probably the healthiest Pox has been. It was mostly after that, when SOE was in the red and shuttered 3 different studios (including the Tucson one where Pox was based) and laid off 1/3rd of its people that Pox ended up with a skeleton crew and was largely unsupported as SOE pivoted and re-focused on development of "core MMO" games.

    ~

    Pox had a number of hurdles beyond "board game":
    • It used java, which, especially back then was not super easy
    • User Experience/Accessibility was low from the start and never really improved
      • You can read some of the old feedback from the PA days here: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/25989/poxnora
        • "That was my main complaint. Other gripes include the "keywording" on cards, there are like 100 keywords that you have to remember what the abilities do and many of these (at least 20%) only appear on ONE card, so why didn't they just spell it out? Many of these keywords do almost the EXACT same thing, with just a different name, like "Teleport" and "Jump" for example. It was needlessly complicated and cluttered. To top it off, many of the abilities were so weak they were often disabilities, with others being so strong that they would "fix" them to do something completely different a few weeks later. This made the collectible aspect of the game rather frustrating as you'd trade for a playset of really awesome card X and two weeks later that card is not even playable because it was nerfed into the ground. I stuck with the game through 3 major overhauls and it totally ruined my deck each time. That wasn't pleasant. Not to mention that the cards gain experience so you waste a lot of time "leveling" them up, only to have that card become worthless later. Glad I played all those experience grind games."
      • I have tried recently in regards to design accessibility, but it's a bit of too little too late
    • High investment required (because CCG model)
    • Completed directly with Magic Online
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Took them 4 years to make that, but it is very close to be a perfect game, just lacking in replayability a bit, but I think, like FTL, that'll change with an expansion launch.
     
    MrCharles likes this.
  9. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I really do want to see your post mortem, will be a interesting read.
     
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    One thing to note re: FEH is that it's largely popular with the JRPG crowd that already loved Fire Emblem, etc. It hasn't really broken out to be a mass market success though the fanbase itself is large enough (especially in Asia) that it's doing quite well. Another datapoint here is that the new F2p "Final Fantasy" game which is just Game of War all over again, and is basically the only game of its type that's still popular in NA, but it has the IP so it works?

    In general, it's hard to gauge actual success on mobile, since a large part of that game is how many millions + what IP you have to throw at it. There are many games on the top lists that are basically just breaking even because they cost so much to make and market in order to stay on top (one of the reasons why when you look at the top lists it is just saturated with IP stuff now like Sims, Minecraft etc.).
     
  11. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    well to the point on IP's you are correct, most top games are heavily based around micro transactions and it's easier to get people to drop a big wad of cash for things players are already attached to, and saves them time since they rarely ever actually tell a story to get players attached to them.

    the gambling simulators make money....in fact they make a lot of money, but their is a formula to these BS slot machines that all start with a good IP.

    regardless among them I find FEH to be the best of the bunch, the game play is decent if you are a strategy game fan and want a quick fix, and it's heavily supported(<----this is why they've won game of the year at DICE for 2017), they also embrace their free players, and over all have just done an excellent job developing the game.

    on the flip side of that coin FF mobile games are rarely supported with new mechanics and game modes, ever thing costs a fortune, premium materials are so rare months of saving will get you nothing, it's just a terrible experience =/
     
  12. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    I really don't xD

    My Hope would never die.
     
  13. hfok

    hfok I need me some PIE!

    Turn by turn base game definitely on rise, see xcom and mario + rabbidds kingdom battle.
     
  14. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    On topic as well. Gwent has been fairly successful as well. But yet again, It's most likely because it's tied to a huge franchise in the witcher (& slightly because the witcher game itself made everybody love gwent as it was then they improved upon it)
     
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    There's certainly been a lot more online card games and other games of this type in the last 5 years or so, some have succeeded, others have failed.

    • Shadow Era is alive, not sure how it's doing these days (2011, so a bit older than "recent")
    • Shadowverse is growing strong (tho, like Gwent, is also IP based)
    • Solforge is basically dead (took 4 years to develop, launched in 2016, was going to be shut down in 2017, but they are keeping the power to the servers for now)
    • Eternal is alive (2016 beta, 2017 full launch)
    • Scrolls is super dead (started development in 2011, beta'd in 2014, shut down in 2015)
    • Might and Magic: Duel of Champions is dead (2012-2016, had IP, but to be fair that IP has been beaten to death and is generic AF)
    • Hex is technically alive but I've never heard of anyone actually playing it? Maybe someone who is more familiar with the game can give us an idea of how it is doing
    • Duelyst seems to be doing well
    • Plants vs Zombies: Heroes is still alive (2016, mobile only)
    • The Elder Scrolls: Legends launched last year, honestly haven't played it yet and have no idea how it is doing
     
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Those were certainly recent high profile ones, but in general, single player turn-based games have always been popular enough with a certain crowd, so this isn't really a surprise.
     
  17. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    faeria too seems to be the nearest to pox (still far btw) experience, and doing not bad.
     
  18. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I played hex, it was great but then they got sued I stopped playing around then.
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Oh, yea, forgot about that one. I actually have it, but the tutorial always froze on me at one point and it couldn't be skipped so I have never played it beyond a few steps into the tutorial.
     
  20. kthx

    kthx The King of Potatoes

    I used to get the same issue. It is fixed now and the client is really polished. The game is rather good - I enjoy it quite a lot, but the big issue for me is the lack of community in-client. That was always pox's magic: the chat channels were set up in a really great way and you got to know the people you played with.

    It doesn't quite scratch the same itch as Pox used to, but it is very good.

    ShadowEra seems to have just had a bit of a revival. They functionally sold the game to the players and there's been a burst of activity again.
     

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