What's up with Geert Wilders?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ohmin, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    My respect for Geert Wilders is on the ascent. He is literally risking his life by refusing to remain silent while his culture is steadily expunged. Nothing immoral about his opinions. No calls for violence. No desire to execute gays or atheists or nonbelievers. Autocrats, among others, disagree with Mr. Wilders. Well boo and hiss on them.
     
  2. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    yes yes, I get it DJ, no calling for violence, I think maybe ressetlement to the east, some sort of final sollution to the Muslim problem?
     
  3. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Citizens do NOT need to be resettled. That would be immoral, and illegal.

    Control of future immigration is the path forward. Otherwise nation will only technically exist.

    The #1 thing West can do for Muslims right now is to stop bombing them day and night.
     
  4. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    now you're just being deliberatly obtuse to ess with me :)

    which is certainly a thing he supports and I too think immigration should be controlled but not his primary talking point

    The #1 thing West can do for Muslims right now is to stop bombing them day and night.[/QUOTE]
    which is why the Dutch primarily do recon and training.
     
  5. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Anti-Islam Dutch MP Geert Wilders found guilty of hate speech

    9 December 2016 • 11:01am

    "...Wilders led a party rally during a local election campaign in The Hague in March 2014, asking whether there should be “more or fewer Moroccans in the Netherlands.”

    The crowd’s response of “fewer, fewer”, was clearly organised, said a judge at the secure court at Schiphol Judicial Complex, near Amsterdam, ruling that Wilders had breached the boundaries of even a politician’s freedom of speech.

    “It doesn’t matter that Wilders gave another message afterwards [saying he was referring only to criminal Moroccans and benefits claimants],” said the judge. “The message that evening from the podium, via the media, was loud and proud and did its work…The group was collectively dismissed as inferior to other Dutch people.”


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...mp-geert-wilders-found-guilty-discrimination/

    The best way to oppose Geert Wilders is with speech. It is a grave error to think that bullying and shaming and trying to silence Wilders is the best path forward. Only death or speech will slow him down. Win on the battlefield of ideas. Sham court proceedings only fuel the revolution.

    Dutch citizens of Moroccan descent that commit heinous crimes or abuse welfare should NOT be deported. That would be immoral. But non-citizens absolutely have NO right to remain in the country. Neither opening up immigration or tightening it way down is racist or evil or immoral or illegal or naughty. (The needs of a nation at any one point in history is the crucial question). Geert "the far right politician" Wilders has MUCH more moderate ideas about how to manage a nation than the dictators and/or theocrats that abound outside of Europe.



    I wonder if Hillary Rodham Clinton has ever dismissed a group of people as inferior to other human beings? If "yes", when will the trial begin?



    Her supporters, alleged champions of the downtrodden, are clapping and cheering at the super funny and bigoted musings of their golden hearted leader.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  6. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    she did not specify an etnicity.
    there is a huge difference between a group of *etnicity* and a group of *people with an idea*

    I'll try to explain in a way you can relate to;

    you can't shoot a person for being a certain etnicity, for example jewish.
    you can shoot a person when he treathens your life, regardless of wether he is also jewish or not.

    understand?


    Half the people with X political view are ******** = acceptable use of freedom of speech.
    People who are X etnicity are all bad = racist and infringing on the right of freedom from discrimination.
     
  7. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    this is america, we can shoot who we want
     
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  8. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    I still think it's funny because Judaism is a religion, not a race. Granted, it is one based on tribalism and bloodlines to an extent, but the tenets of the religion are that if one breaks faith you're no longer part of the tribe (exiled and no longer "Jewish"). While if you accept the beliefs you can become part of the tribes (become Jewish).

    While certain genetic traits have, as a result of the tribalistic aspects of the religion, been common to many Jews, they aren't therefore inherently actually Jewish, nor does it preclude any person of any genetic disposition from being Jewish.
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  9. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Jesus people Trump isn't a racist, he said he's building a wall and he said he's deporting millions of illegals to get votes. If any of that actually happens i'll be shocked

    Not only are those things not illegal but the massive majority of the American people even the ones that voted for Hilary want better border protection and to deport illegals that are costing taxpayers billions every year.

    Also democrats have labeled just about every single republican candidate racist, or compared him to Hitler when in reality the democratic party has ran minority communities into the ground for years. Please do some research about all this.
     
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  10. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I correctly labeled her comments as bigotry. Race or national origin is not automatically relevant when discussing the inferior status of one group compared to another.

    She also stated Trump's message resulted in a website going from 11,000 to 11,000,000 people. Bizarre unforced error on her part. Then the following gem: "Now some of those folks, they are irredeemable." To be fair, she turned hopeful and kind after that. But, as the election results prove, MuriKans did not prefer her divisive message more than Trump's. Two machiavellianesque titans battled for a throne, and the challenger shocked the world. Trump appears to be moderating way back now.
     
  11. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    It is if the grouping is based entirely on race or national origin?


    In any event, Geressen's point, ostensibly, is that ideological groups, that is, groups of people that are judged based on the ideology (which still isn't fair by the way), have an attribute that is relevant to the judgement of the person.

    For example, I feel perfectly justified in calling ISIS a vile existence. I'm not attacking Syrians, Iraqi's, Arabs, or Islam in general. I'm attacking that specific sub-group (and others like it) which has promoted the raping of children, enslavement, mass murder, the subjugation of women, and so on. The people acting within that sub-group.

    I don't say that the people are inferior necessarily. But their ideology is, at least on a moral/ethical axis, and the acceptance and promotion of that ideology by those people diminishes them in my view.

    Meanwhile, Geressen's implication is that basing criticism on race or nationality is inherently flawed because neither race nor nationality are inherently tied to any given ideology.

    I'm not sure I agree on the point of nationality, at least to a point (nationalities are inherently tied to certain ideologies and [multiple] cultures, though obviously not all citizens will agree, they are generally brought up in that culture save those that are too young/not yet born). But I don't think it's more right than wrong. Though I don't agree with censoring or making speech illegal short of inciting crimes or giving threats and the like. I don't think being an ass-hat in your speeches, even concerning something "baseless" like nationality or race, should be a crime. But it's also not my nation and beyond voicing that opinion I have no way or arguably right to try and change it.

    Feel free to disagree with any points or statements if you wish.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
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  12. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    BTW the judge also decided that while guilty there will be no punishment or fine because of the weirdness of the trial.
     
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  13. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    it's really more like both a religion and a race. it's not a given that every jew you meet can trace their ancestry to palestine, but it's a very strong likelihood (in part due to jews preferring to marry jews, which inevitably means that a new jewish family will marry into an older jewish family if possible)


    of the abrahamaic faiths, judaism is the least likely to either convert or accept converts. doesn't mean they don't do it, but among some jewish subcultures there's a bit of a stigma against people that aren't properly of the faith (can be converts or people that follow the faith whose mother wasn't jewish, so people like my uncles). it's not a huge deal, but it's certainly more than christianity or islam from what i've seen and heard
     
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  14. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    I thought maybe you guys would like to know that two former workers of the Party For Freedom are sueing the party for a couple thousand independant of eachother because they got burnouts because of high workload and overtime without pay.

    one of them has equated it to white slavery, I don't really think it resembles forced prostitution and he is just a confused person who thinks regular slavery doesn't apply because he is white. or maybe it does resemble it because he got ****ed.
     

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