What's your thoughts about the current situation of Greece?

every once in awhile you hear stories in the news about a state that is going bankrupt but it never seems to happen. I suppose that is an analogous situation (at least on a financial scale). Though I expect there is more sentimental attachment between the US and its states than there is between the EU and its member countries.

 

It's not that simple, though. There are a lot of factors at play, such as public appearance and what it means to be recognized as "part of Europe." I remember that one of the arguments leveled when Greece was joining the EU was that Greek culture was such a big part of European history, even though that seemingly has little to do with the practical feasibility and consequences of them joining.

 

That is definitely true, there is a lot of symbolic value in what is the mother of democracy and also the mother of what is, to some extent, European identity. Of course we wanted Greece on board, even if it meant turning several blind eyes.

But i think you also need to bear in mind that at the time, pre-crash, everyone thought things would be economically rosy forever.

 

Not necessarily. Among other things, there is huge political and international pressure to stay in. Also, as noted in the "politicians" thread governments do not always do what is best for their own nation (instead doing something that may enhance their own position, or maybe even just doing what they think is best without it actually being so).

Saying: "Yeah... we don't want to be in the Euro anymore" as a spontaneous thing is not easy considering these pressures, and some of the personal incentives likely involved for a given politician.

But it looked rosy because of the bubble that crashed. Before 2008, people thought the US was doing great, especially in terms of real estate... turns out, not so much.

 

Yeah, that's a big problem as well. They were too optimistic about the financial component of the decision. It is pretty hard to predict economic trends on a large-scale, but they probably should have been tipped off by the disorganization of the Greek government that something was amiss.

 

They have caused a ripple to hit our stock market and I've been informed aus might drop the 0.70 or so US dollar to AUD, which makes steam or anything expensive.

But someone said to prepare for tourists.

 

With any luck, your economy won't ever get so bad that banks start taking money directly out of tourist business like they've done in Greece (intercepting payments and all that).

 

I think Australia is alright at the moment.
we also have a trade agreement with china now, so that's pretty sweet if some stuff gets cheaper for us.

 

Yeah but your economy is so linked to China's that if it goes tits up there, Australia will follow.

 

Don't worry we have a great prime minister *cough* we'll be fine.

q.q

Anyways back to Greece, I hope they go alright to be honest. Didn't the Greek population vote on wether they'd accept the previous proposition or not anyway?

 

Haven't thought about it too much, but I can say the US is headed for similar stare of affairs. Current government has the silly idea that raising the debt limit removes the debt. This sums up the US financial issues.

 

Yes.

The EU told Greeces leaders that they would ignore that.

Seriously, they held an emergency meeting, and after 14 hours, Greece's government got up to leave, and were told the could not leave.

I dunno, maybe it's partly my fault for not emphasizing this enough, but the Greek Government and the EU has thrown aside the wishes of the people. I'm surprised more people aren't worried about this. Not only did they throw aside the wishes of the people but they effectively took their sovereignty.

To put it in more sensational but no less accurate terms:

Greece has been conquered.


On a related note, I saw a clip prior to this particular development with Farage speaking, supporting a Grexit. Most interesting about the clip of his speech though, was that he noted that since Austerity Measures had been implemented, Greece's debts had nearly doubled.

To the best of my understanding, the new measures being forced on them will harm their economy even further. If your national debt is increasing not just in spite of but because of what the lender is telling you what to do... that lender is clearly and intentionally trying to at least conquer if not destroy your nation.

 

For those that don't care to swim through all ticking windows, the main one is the one stating that at the time of this posting the US has 61 Trillion in debt, most of which comes from unfunded Liabilities (90-ish Trillion, the total debt includes other stuff) US GDP for 2014 was only at 17 Trillion. And we're still spending at a deficit.

Also of note is the US Debt held by foreign nations tab, which is one third of the US National Debt (EDIT: To clarify in case someone misunderstands the official tally of which does not include the Unfunded Liabilities, and is pegged at 18-ish Trillion, foriegn nations haven't loaned us 20 Trillion, "just" 6 Trillion).

More in depth, but this is an interesting article on the subject: http://www.theburningplatform.com/tag/unfunded-liabilities/

And now back to Greece...

 

Well said. As far as I'm concerned, we've already defaulted. The fact that other countries who rely on us for a good portion of the global market fail to realize that speaks wonders.

EDIT: Also, I'm still surprised that we didn't get a wake up call when our Credit Rating got got downgraded.

 

Can you be more specific about the austerity measures that are hurting the Greek economy?

 

Not at this time. Being 'Murican I've spent most of my detailed information gathering worrying about my own nation's problems, so I only have a basic understanding of the specifics involved in Greece. I could do some more research if you really want me to, but I'm not a fully trained economist and I don't know that I'd be able to point to specifics of which austerity measures are most harmful, which seem reasonable, etc. If anyone else has more detailed and specific information, especially if they're Greek, that would be most welcome indeed.

That said however, it seems to me that increasing the VAT on tourism taxes will only serve to kill tourism, one of the few strong points of Greece as far as "exports", as I understand it (huge amounts of history there and all that make it an interesting place for people to visit and therefore spend money). A lack of tourism would also serve to make the VAT relatively pointless as far as paying down debt. This could easily create more problems if it follows that downward spiral.

At least that's my view.

 

Can you explain this further? Twas my understanding that when your debt exceeds your income, your generally ****ed. Is there something I misunderstand, or unaware of about our GDP? I'm always open to change my opinion with new information.

Edit: I'm am also speaking from what I think I know, rather than what I do know. What I've come to know was from a recent video I've seen. Are there mistakes in the information, is it not all of the information, are there corrections/additions you'd make to it?

 

Speaking of Spain, apparently they have outlawed criticism of the government without express permission (taking effect later this year), and of protests or in fact any large gathering near government facilities. And of photographing or "disrespect" of police and security personnel. http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...t-new-curbs-on-freedom-of-speech-and-assembly

Anyone know what Spain's current financial situation is? Because if it's bad, that would at least explain why they'd think having a law like that would in any way be a good idea long-term.


Tangent:

Didn't you hear from Obama? "Raising the Debt limit doesn't increase your debt..."

I think he should've really listened to Obama circa 2006:

 

@Ohmin I understand that it's not raising the debt limit. It's simply raising the allowance for which future spending can be undertaken. I know if i'm in debt by $20, me telling myself that I can go at least $30 does not increase the $20 that I owe. It is however a bad decision, and I should really pay that $20 back before I spend more.