Why is ok...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Axeraiser, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    My question was whether it was acceptable from a balance and design point of view to have a champion deal 35 damage in DoTs from a single attack, not anything to do with the rest of Gekaal or the fact that there are plenty of ways to play around Gekaal, obviously.
  2. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    It is acceptable because it's a form of damage that has many counters(and the very hard counter Resilient), it's on a hero and all the rest you've already read. You can't separate cause from consequence.
    Goyo likes this.
  3. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    It's acceptable because it's one hero. If it were on multiple champs or a ranged champ, it would not.
  4. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    gekaal should have lost a couple dots and had his nora cost reduced and gained a support ability. dots were just nerfed tho and it made him alot weaker.

    i think this is an example of faction bias tho, did axeraiser complain about bastion as well? because that was the same issue.
  5. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    His DoTs were not nerfed how did it make him weaker ?

    How is it faction bias for me to bring up a topic about a FS champ ? If that was the case every nerf thread anyone makes is bias, good logic there MW.

    In regards to Bastion, by the reasoning of people in this thread Gekaal is fine because :

    He's a hero.
    He's the only champ with Nora incarnate.
    He's expensive.
    Learn to play around it.

    I guess by that logic Bastion shouldn't have been nerfed,

    He's a hero.
    He was the only champ with Combo AttackDevastate (after it got removed from Pygmy)
    He's expensive
    There were ways to play around it.

    So he shouldn't have been nerfed right ? Right ? I hope this gives some perspective to the people that replied to this thread.
    Makorov and Pattn199 like this.
  6. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    what im saying is, i didnt see you complain about bastion before his nerf(if anything I assume you defended him) when he had pretty much the same issue.(made worse by IS ap gen and spells)

    I already recommended gekaal lose a couple dots and gain a support ability months ago but sokolov ignored my recommendation. Also gekaal's dots used to reduce the targets dmg by 1 and their defense by 2, that's a pretty significant nerf.
  7. Aghatoor

    Aghatoor I need me some PIE!

    I think that Bastion was much stronger than Gekaal, but i'd like to see him with combo attack devastate again, because it was his signature. The main difference was that Bastion could garantee a kill on quite every champs without immunity/resistance physical with just 8 ap spent, while Gekaal can "just" bring 23 dmg on a single attack(39 after 2 turns), but, as someone else has already said, any source of cleans, tough or most of all resilient can counter him, and within 2 turns the unit hit can heal itself or be used for something like Sacrifice/Retribution. There are many counterplays for Gekaal, there were less for Bastion. If you add the difference between characters stats it's easy to understand that Bastion was for sure better than Gekaal.

    At the moment they are both strong, as they cover different roles: Gekaal hits so hard, but he's so squishy (one with nora isn't that good, counterable), Bastion is quite tanky (subsume is worse than one with nora, but not that much) , gaining tough ranks, and he can hit so hard (Escalating rage is a great ability), and finally is first upgrade path gives him nice abilities, hard to choose what is the best. Bastion can also be played with Blood clan, giving him 3 ranks of rend for a max (with 4 stacks of Escalating rage) of 24 dmg in a single turn, still more dmg than Gekaal's one.
  8. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    You distorted every word in this thread to your own convenience, It's useless discussing any further tbh.
    super71 likes this.
  9. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    Hehe you people so jaded stop attacking the player( and his other opinions) and focus the point :D
    Ye Gekeel does do 38 dmg (39 with banner) over the course of 3 turns , 23 being the initial hit power (ignoring possibility of immunity and vul to various DoT types) at a range of 3, not to mention that his DoTs apply Debuffs as well.
    Resurrect is also a great ability for him, but 90 nora is a expensive price to pay , even as FS.

    I do think dealing 23 dmg a turn potentially is rather great of=n a mobile champ, But, i kind of feel the current rune-set in the meta (Granted i might not be fully aware of it) is very well equipped to deal and counter such a rune.

    Does it need a Nerf, in a single rune context, ye probably.
    In a meta, on the whole context, maybe it's not so bad to stay the same. ( Assuming that's what the respective faction players want , and not a different style to the rune)
    Woffleet and Pattn199 like this.
  10. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    DoTs lost the debuffs.

    Also regarding Bastion, it doesn't help that Subsume is so Firking bugged.
  11. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    Bastion was much harder to deal with and kill. Gekaal hardly possesses the same powerturning capabilities that Bastion had (and still has actually). Hence, he has never been much trouble to me or to anyone for that matter that has argued against your cause, Axe.
    super71 and Ballballer like this.
  12. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    a couple things you said are inaccurate, bastion and gekaal are both pretty hard to kill, also bastion has since been nearly shoeboxed by the changes made to him. He's no where close to as strong as he was with devastate but still the same nora cost.
  13. Makorov

    Makorov I need me some PIE!

    @doubtofbuddha I saw you like this and, no disrespect bro, I'm going to tell you this next time you whine about something non-FS (the only thing that ever seems to cross you) in the game.
    Cydna likes this.
  14. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    Geekal is a cool champ.
    Osidan and BurnPyro like this.
  15. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    Stop playing stupid, lol
    super71 likes this.
  16. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    I liked it mostly because I am coming to appreciate kalasle's overall perspective about what the current game situation is like. He elaborated more in his second post, but I knew where he was headed with the first one.

    Besides, I genuinely don't think gekaal is a problem. There are other things in FS that are way worse. He is not even in the Top 10 best FS champions, and probably would not make the list of the Top 75 best champions in the game.
    Alakhami likes this.
  17. Elves Rule

    Elves Rule I need me some PIE!

    To save yourself going insane, I reckon you just need to copy-paste a compilation of every time you've said this into your signature.
    Then in all of these sort of threads just do an arrow like this:
  18. Makorov

    Makorov I need me some PIE!

    I agree that Gekaal isn't a problem

    kalasle makes Bane Shift more complicated than it has to be

    I attacked you unfairly, so I'm sorry
  19. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Sometimes, "making Bane Shift more complicated than it has to be" is actually revealing that things are more complicated than people would like to think.
    Lushiris likes this.
  20. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    bastion and euan both suck now, talgar is the only good hero in IS. Bastion isnt worth his cost at all.

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