Wings Revision

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by doubtofbuddha, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    Anyone try them out? How are they now?
     
  2. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    I did, and they are by FAR worse than before
     
  3. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    Care to elaborate?
     
  4. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    sure, they lost splash, yeah some of them are cheaper, but they can't hold a candle to most champs out there. and many of them got their sigils changed to "wtf is this" I can rant angrily but don't take my word for it try them out
     
    Sealer0 and Dhamun like this.
  5. Dhamun

    Dhamun Member

    the Wings suck even more then pre-patch.
    i was so happy to see this last patch incoming and now... hey palmface round da corner.
    Amber Wing? crippled. no more combo: magic eater/aura
    Scarlet? y it lost "opportunistic"?? -1min/max range cuz of the new Platinum buff? dafuq?!
    cerulean wing? ok
    Obsidian? could be

    cant understand the idea behind this patch. wings arent competative, no way. but i'll try some more games with em
     
  6. nico

    nico I need me some PIE!

    the wings can be only played with other wings, an as a theme, sucks, the new sigils are bad, because only affect the champs with the hability and only trigger when you deploy another sigil champ, as i said a lot of times, devs dont play this game
     
    Bonice90 likes this.
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    There were a number of major reasons for the adjustments as outlined in the lengthy thread here:
    • Simplification of the abilities (this is a general Pox direction, but also applied here)
    • Move away from the positioning play of the Wings, which never really worked
    • General reduction in cost of most Wings
    • General reduction in cost of Sigils (facilitating the above)
      • Which actually allows them to be more playable outside the theme, rather than having so much nora locked up on the splash
    Along with this, additional methods of triggering Sigils will be added, one of which is already done, with Griffin Perch having Honorary Sigil.

    We'll continue to monitor them for playability.

    Note that I personally love playing Wings, so I will definitely be trying them out myself.
     
    Dhamun likes this.
  8. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    Could you please elaborate on this? Are you referring to them no longer having the "within 4 spaces" clause?
     
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Correct. They were originally intended to be a bit of a flying Phalanx, but this only seemed to make them cost too much when Sigils weren't active, and fiddly to play with when trying to get the Sigils on (and then champs end up with so many abilities and mixed effects it was hard to utilize fully while being charged for it).
     
  10. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    Sokolov you make points about why but they do not justify the fact that they are way WORSE than they were
     
  11. Dhamun

    Dhamun Member

    I am looking forward ur xperiences, sokolov ;) maybe i ll be lucky to have a look at u playing the wings
     
    Nora That likes this.
  12. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    losing splash made them not worth it
     
  13. Nora That

    Nora That I need me some PIE!

    I completely disagree as an IS player even with their cost the splash was what made them worth it, now they are not worth running outside of griffins because there are better options. And even within a griffin bg they are just too weak in comparison to most if not all themes
     
    Dhamun likes this.
  14. nico

    nico I need me some PIE!

    wings only need a few things, and reduce nora cost, im really done with this game, DEVS DONT PLAY IT, thats the main problem, sit and play for at least 2 weeks, and THEN try to nerf buff things, based on that experience, wings suck, now almost all the angels suck, while you still put in runes like the new vashal, creating illusions that DONT DESTROY when you kill the original champ, dont balancing a thing, NO you sitll put in broken champs, and nerfing balanced runes (stitched first), the same rune YOU DEVS changed patchs ago, this tell me you dont have the minimun idea of what are you doing, changing a rune then 2 patchs after that changing again, the only thing you should do its leave the code AND PLAY, ALL OF YOU, PLAY THIS GAME
     
    Nora That likes this.
  15. Beasts for life

    Beasts for life The King of Potatoes

    I've been playing wings and I don see what sucks about them. They are finally cheaper. You can run hound master for boost.They have improve range,soften, I love the change. Thank you Sok
     
  16. Bonice90

    Bonice90 I need me some PIE!

    they weren´t that costy and as an extra all champs got a buff creating super champs, now they dont stack or get on steroids like before
     
  17. Beasts for life

    Beasts for life The King of Potatoes

    5-7 nora decrease on each wing is a big cost decrease
     
  18. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Some still expensive, most are 80+. Maybe hybrid with Nora-gen would work better? I made a Griffon-only bg today and they don't look that great on paper to me. Adding Houndmaster and/or Sarnghavian Herder seems a must and maybe even Sarg, Minister or other dwarves seem to be a must, but the more you add from outside Griffins the more you realize there are better options outside them.
     
    Dhamun likes this.
  19. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    Sigil abilities were situational, if you really needed something you'd move them in range of eachother and play a champ with Sigil. Now they boost just themselves: no real theme imo, just random spawns that give a very slight bonus.
    On to the rant.
    Duration nerf: from 6 to 5 turns (for most it doesnt matter, but (for instance) on an obsidian wing... opportunistac assault doesnt proc during your own turn, at least not that I can recall)
    Nerfed their AOE, no more range 4 when another Sigil is deployed. This was what the staple ability about all the wings. It was the reason to include more wings imo. Not having this should reduce the whole sigil ability by about 10 nora.
    Lastly they nerfed some of the abilities.
    Obsidian used to get +2 dmg as well. Now he lost that and his ability is only -1. That being said: he was cheaper before the nerf (I dont know what happened here)...
    Scarlet Wing's opportunistic gave her more dmg, and having more range it made more sense. Now they just simplified the scarlet wing, made her less fun to play. It is 2 nora cheaper on the whole, but with the nerf to wings I feel Scarlet lost her real umpf (just gimme the old 1 back :p). I loved the Scarlet, because of the sigil ability: against rock eater, her sigil was the staple ability to use, now you have to have a wider variety of dmg types, thus not playing more wings.
    On the whole they managed to ruin the whole sigil ability.
    Although griffin perch was a fun addition, and the cost reducements might have made them nice. I think most people will skipp wings completely now, certainly after the hype of getting a proper remake.
     
    Dhamun likes this.
  20. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!


    You are over-looking a few things.
    1) Obsidian lost the damage clause but also gained +1 range and hps.
    2) Scarlet wing lost opportunistic but also gained +1 speed which means he is better when being attacked, and isnt completely disrupted by getting hit once.
    3) The sigil costs have been reduced quite a bit and they are now less expensive to get those abilities than actually having those abilities would be.
    4) Wings have a pretty wide array of damage types. I cound 4 physical, 1 magic, 1 magic/fire, and 2 lightning. Even one of those physicals has access to lightning damage. Also I think at this point you probably should be running holy blade of valdec which lets you easily turn one of those physical users into fire as well.
    5) I agree the duration should be 6 turns.

    I don't have any strong opinions on their relative power level yet. I still haven't quite gotten the hang of them, but it feels like they have a pretty wide array of options available to them, the issue is finding out if those options are good enough and what mix of wings/not wings to run. For full testing purposes I am trying out 2 of each of the main "wing" units (So 16) and a Priest of Valdac because dat Divine Favor.
     

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