Wings Revision

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by doubtofbuddha, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    You're basically talking about giving multiple champions Vaporize and/or Arrow Eater and whatever other effects for just 25/30 nora.
    Think about it a bit from the perspective of the other player. How would they even deal with it?

    And it's not like the champions themselves are hard to place down. 68 for Amethyst who you're definitely gonna play anyway (and who is the main problem champ with your suggestion, followed by Amber) and 25-30 for mass Vaporize. And everyone else is cheap too, save for Amber and Obsidian (not counting Platinum because I wouldn't run it in its current state, but I could be wrong about him).
    Now, granted, you do require positioning and it is only 1 round, but I still doubt this version of the spell would be ok.

    Powerlevel aside though, I'm not fond of the idea design wise, because it puts them right back where they started. Sure, they don't need to clump up all the time now (and that's a relief), but it's basically the same problem as with the old Sigil, except toned down.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  2. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    ....? how in gods name do they all get Vaporize? or Arrow Eater?
  3. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    I was talking about this suggestion.
  4. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    like i said: how on earth would they all get Vaporize? Vaporize is not a sigil ability, nor is arrow eater.
  5. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    Are you trolling me?

    I'm on a tablet so embedding links is a pain, you look it up yourself.
  6. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    lol I failed, mah bad sry mate
  7. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    It's cool. But you know, fact-checking saves lives (or something). :p

    Back on the topic of that spell suggestion. I realized that you could easily chain 2 in a row (with plenty nora left) for a 4 turn vaporize and/or 4 turn arrow eater and/or illuminate etc. on everyone. For a total of 50-60 nora over 2 rounds, and 2 deck slots. I'd take that deal any day.
    So if I wasn't sure before about it being very strong, I definitely am now.
  8. Elric

    Elric I need me some PIE!

    Yes, Wings are much clearer now than before in how Sigil functions. However, this clarity came at a cost of making the whole theme weaker.

    Wings have a major problem in that they are all 6-speed, except for Cerulean Wing. Why are griffins so slow?

    Amber Wing is just way overcosted for what it brings to the table. 9-damage is just bad. At least give Amber Wing an attack range of 1-2, so if you choose Magic Aura, you can position your Wings better so that you are not damaging your own Wings.

    Cerulean Wing is just weak. 45 hit points on a melee champ is just bad. At least make him 50 hit points with no Nora cost adjustment. He has no defensive abilities. 45 hit points just doesn't cut it for a melee champ like this one.

    Ivory Wing is junk right now. Deploying it is like playing with a handicap. For IS, if you need a healer, Priest of Valdac just outclasses Ivory Wing easily. I would go so far as to give it +2 Range with no Nora cost adjustment. It would be runnable then.

    Platinum Wing could use Strike on base without a Nora cost adjustment. It's just underwhelming right now.

    The 2 champs with Honorary Sigil should just be non-Sigil champs. It was just an afterthought to add Honorary Sigil to them. It's not like the Wings theme needs anymore melee champs. Not all griffins need to have a Sigil ability. These 2 just don't need to be Sigil champs.

    Use Witches as your model on buffing themes. Witches are awesome right now. Very powerful. You know a key reason why Witches are so above the power level of Wings? Range. Range is king in this game, and the range of the Witch theme is far superior to Wings. Not a single Wings champion has a range greater than 5. It's almost as if it's assumed that the Platinum Sigil is activated all the time.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    If you follow this thread, you will see that I have already answered or talked about most of those points in some fashion (adjustments, range, etc.).

    Re: Honorary Sigil, it's a 0 nora ability that gives Wings players a couple more options to trigger Sigils, I don't see a compelling reason to remove it. Can you elaborate on why this would help improve Wings?
  10. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Can you plz just make them OP and them leave them like that?
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Maybe... let me check how much you spent on the mid-terms.
    Sirius and Iskandak like this.
  12. Elric

    Elric I need me some PIE!

    I didn't see many concrete changes...just Storm on Amethyst (which is already one of the decent Wings) and Evasive as an upgrade path for Cerulean (which will still be bad with 45 hit points on a melee champ).

    You are right in that there is no definitive reason to remove Honorary Sigil from those 2 champs. It's just that you mentioned that you might revisit those 2 champs, when it would be better to just focus on the true Wings. After all, there is only 1 Sokolov and so many runes to adjust. If you try to change non-essential pieces, you run the risk of really not helping the theme and just wasting effort on a theme that is too weak and won't be played.

    All that being said, your efforts on helping themes be competitive is appreciated. It's just that I was disappointed when this theme was revisited, but was actually made worse by the visit. If only you could make all themes as strong as the current Witch theme, although you may have made them a bit too strong. LOL
  13. Elric

    Elric I need me some PIE!

    As of today, seems he dropped out of top 100. I think at the beginning of a rank reset, it's easy to get to top 100 with a sub-optimal deck, but once rank settles, you really need to play with a Tier 1 bg, unless you're Tiny or something. ;)
  14. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    Yeah he beat me with an older version of my FS meta deck. It made me realize I needed a little bit more ranged. Now I have a sniper. A lovely, lovely sniper.
  15. Elric

    Elric I need me some PIE!

    He moved on to SP/IS Constructs now. He's doing much better than he was doing with Wings.

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