Worms Ground Zero

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by kalasle, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Worms are a complicated late-game theme in FW built around their signature ability, Necrosis. While worms have enough power in their runes to play something like a standard deck, as a theme they truly shine only once a player gains a deeper understanding of their unique mechanics and aims. You don’t pick up worms in a day, or a week. Playing worms can look explosive and caustic, but learning to play them is a slow and steady process.

    Deck Composition:

    Champions (place deployment value on them in order of good-ness)
    Core [2] -- Phantasmal, Putrid
    Good [1-2] -- Fiend, Blinking, Dusk, Eye, Bile Zombie, Colossus, Twilight
    Acceptable [0-2] -- Rotmaw, Reflecting, Martyr, Bloodworm, Chattering Maw
    Bad [0-1] -- Carrionling, Boneshredder, Mindthief
    ??? [0-1] -- Pretty much everything else​

    Good [1-2] -- Essence Drain, Mobi, Hands
    Specific [~1] -- Tome, Banner, BCS, Collar, Necroweave, Tomb
    ??? [0-2] -- Pretty much everything else
    Some champions have clear-cut upgrades, while others have a lot of variance.
    • Bile Zombie should take Initiative -- I use Init 1 on both.
    • Phantasmal should take Hex, but the other options each have merits. I currently run both with Commander for consistency, and because damage boosts have become somewhat rarer, but Aura is a viable pick.
    • Putrid has the most diverse upgrade set, with every choice on both lines, even Ravish, having some value. I used to run two completely different Putrids -- one with Consume/Aura, the other with Harvest/Soften. The only rule I would have would be to not mix Aura with Harvest, because Harvest dictates some positioning decisions and you are more likely to hurt allies. Currently, I am running 2x Consume, and 1/1 on Scour/Aura. The durability provided by Consume is incredible.
    • Blood Fiend should take Exertion 3/Siphon.
    • Eye can take either Necrosis or Soul Vit on U1, and maybe even Frightening Blows on U2 over Log: Flanking -- currently I have Necrosis/Log: Flanking on both.
    • For Dusk Creeper, Shroud should be the take on U1 because it is the reason to run the champ, and although Emp: Speed is alright on U2, +1 SPD should be the take there.
    • Bloodworm has a strange set of upgrade choices, and although Surge/Multi provides a lot of power, it may not be the best choice because of cost -- I am running Bleed/Hunter at the moment, with the idea that it can be a fairly-costed duelist.
    • Carrion Colossus has all good options, so feel free to suit your tastes -- I think Vivify is a bit weak, though, and am currently running Torrent/Lord for versatility.
    • Reflecting Creeper has some odd upgrade choices. Fellowship used to be the obvious pick before it was nerfed, but I think Regen is now the best choice in U1 for consistency. I am still washy on U2, but have been having success with Leech Vit for extra healing and potential long-term value.
    • All of Blinking Creepers choices have some potential, but I run Vengeful/Unspeakable for cheap utility. Vengeful is worse than Dread, but it's much less expensive, and although Eyes already cover Detection, 2x2 Detection is strong and Blinking is better suited to using it, so there's a good case for Detection over Unspeakable.
    • Every upgrade on Twilight Creeper is good. I split 1/1 on Impatient and Initiative, but am not sure on choices beyond that. I would err towards Binding Chains.
    • I run Sonic Roar on Chattering Maw for the disruption and control. The other U1 upgrades are alright, but after the change from SL1 to 2 -- meaning that you can get a second Roar off at the end of its life -- I think Roar is the way to go. The U2 options are similar, but I usually encounter more opposing champs than allied ones, and so take Initiative.
    Sample Deck:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
    Woffleet, DiCEM0nEY, flador and 4 others like this.
  2. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Watched you play the other day and it seemed like it was working pretty well. I may have to give worms another try, i really want to get into the theme.

    Have you had any luck with the new one?
    Beefinator likes this.
  3. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I do not own the new one. I don't have any inclination to get it at the moment, either. I don't see it doing anything particular exciting, although maybe it has the right combination of soft CC and durability to make it work? It's hard to say.
  4. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    No you are right he definitely isn't exciting, though he looks like fairly reliable meat. 1x with defender might be worth it.
  5. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I would use Evasive/Chains if I did run him. Bonus DEF in worms sounds weak.
  6. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Came for Risen Grenadier, left disappointed.
  7. voodoov

    voodoov I need me some PIE!

    sweet stuff :) thx for sharing
  8. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Recent games indicate this may be an OK deck.
  9. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Bunch of new stuff, updated op.
  10. Nechro

    Nechro Member

    y the 1x1 bile? i know it can be gud in certain situations but i feel id rather wait for a 2x2 double bz chance. how has the 1x1 been doin?
  11. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    They're both 2x2 now.
  12. Nechro

    Nechro Member

    oh ok
  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    More thoughts:

    I like running Propagate on Polluted Martyr. It makes them a much less attractive target, which means that opponents avoid them more, which means they get to bully the opponent more, and also increase the chances that you get the globe. I'm still split 1/1, but it's working ok.

    Carrion Colossus is awesome. I'm running 2, and glad of it. That said, his upgrades are still nebulous -- Swarm seems the most obviously useful, but Aura does more damage, while Torrent works well with Worm Lord and gives him a range attack; Vivify can generate extra-valuable AP, Worm Lord potentially helps with SDZ, and Surge can rocket his damage. It's a damn hard call. Any input would be awesome. As an important note, keeping him at 98/99 reduces his CD from 7 to 6. That's less important when running 2, but still something to consider.

    I'm leaning much more into the Scour/Creeping setup over the Aura/Consume on Putrid. As worms have become squishier and more expensive, incidental taps of 6 damage hurt a lot more. Similarly, rising costs make Blood Fiend and perhaps the Mindthief Pizza Mobile the main viable food targets: everything else has too poor an HP/N ratio. The globe triggers from Creeping Harvest also pull a lot of weight. Cutting 3 nora from Aura to Scour makes some sense, and works better alongside Carrionlings. I'll try 2/0 and see how it works.

    1x Broken Bones feels integral to the list. Especially with rising unit costs, he covers bases that no worm can.

    I still haven't tried Twilight Creeper. I've heard Defender is good? Bums me out -- don't like the big stat-ball themes, and would rather worms didn't have any of that stuff. Unfortunately, Commander and Imp: Range work well enough with Carrionlings that I'm inclined to run them.

    Speaking of, Dusk Creeper seems mostly ok! I still have no idea on his upgrades. At least one of them isn't completely dead now. Not a powerhouse by any means, but I usually deploy 1.

    Bloodworm is very expensive, and worms don't have much Surge power outside of the Colossus; on the contrary, worms feel like one of the themes least suited to using Surge. That could change depending on how much Carrionlings end up factoring into the final builds, though. He seems alright, but it's 80+ nora for a melee unit with 50 HP and 2 DEF. Luke-warm ticket.

    Rotmaw works alright at 70. I'm sticking to 7 speed, because, while Zeal is good, extra sprinting speed helps somewhat. Still messing around with builds, though. Shatter v Opp Assault makes for a tough choice.

    I have no idea what to do with Blinking. I'm going to give some Unspeakable builds a whirl for a while, but he has me stumped.

    The spell set is still a mess.
    Sirius likes this.
  14. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    I laughed irl.

    This theme is way too attrition-y for me to ever enjoy, but I do like watching the progress and experiments of Worm players. Keep up the good work :D.
  15. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    It's just generally a crazy playstyle all over. I love the attrition of zombies but i still can't get my head around worms.
  16. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    Nobody enjoys attrition except for the people running it.
    Alakhami likes this.
  17. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I've been trying to play them for three expansions and still feel the same way -- I have no idea if my strategic approach is right, or if I should rethink the entire playstyle. For me, that's what makes them a blast.
  18. Beefinator

    Beefinator The King of Potatoes

    I've been having a ton of fun with worms. I'm really surprised to not see Eye of Serkan in there. I run mine with Surge and Soul Vitality and he turns into a beast when I play him. As long as something dies each round he has 8 AP the next round, and with a couple of worms out that is a lot of damage he can put out. He has won me games outright. I need to get a second one badly.

    I really like running Rotmaw with Zeal and Opportunistic Assault. It's a lot of fun to just charge him at a front line and watch him pump up. He becomes a ranged destroyer pretty quick if they let you get a couple attacks off.

    Twilight Creeper with defender and life siphon can be a great support for Putrid Creeper. That puts his defense at 5 and once he starts pumping up ranks of Tough he's really, really hard for people to deal with. He tends to have more staying power than anything in the deck, obviously, but defender just makes him that much more difficult to pin down, and I notice people avoiding him pretty often when his DEF is that high.

    I couldn't imagine playing with 2x Colossus, if I lose mine I can't see wanting to deploy another one right away, and I've gotten screwed enough with having him be my first draw as it is. The carrionlings having disease aura is also really irritating.

    I don't know what to think of Dusk Creeper right now. I don't really like him yet. Sure, Shroud is nice and I'll always take 1 more range, but does it make a big enough difference to have his slow butt out there, not really putting up any damage, not really able to move around much? I don't know. He doesn't seem to have a big impact, but he has some cool stuff going on.

    I can't see running Bloodworm. He's very meh. Putrid Creeper does sooooo much more.

    I'm running 2x blinking creeper and really enjoying that as well. SDZ can get pretty out of hand pretty quick and he is amazingly easy to keep alive with Petrifying Gaze. I've completely ruined power turns because of dropping him in the right spot with Dread and Unspeakable. I'm trying him with Vengeful right now, but I don't really like it; I don't really need him to deal a lot of damage, he's more about generating SDZ and petrifying sneaky stuff that gets past your front line.

    I haven't needed 2x bile zombie once, ever, so I only run 1.

    I run 2x bone circle archmages as well for extra summon spam and protection with Hex. I've turned too many games around with Bone Prison + Mobilize to not run him. He basically fits in with any FW deck except foul rite. Two extra damage on everything else, skeles to help protect you, AND he can do rituals on summoned carrionlings, unlike Sac Altar. He's just a powerhouse. I've never felt like deploying him was a mistake.

    I've also been experimenting with Bone Slaves. Deploying them in the middle of the map is just hilarious. They can wreak some serious havoc by stunning stuff after a drop. Lots of fun, but not always the desired effect.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  19. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    I've experimented with running elsari bazaar as it can turn any deployable champ into an instant attack.

    Still testing but I can say that right now the changes do make the theme more cohesive.
  20. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I don't have any Eyes, I need one. Probably would try it out if I had it.

    I've been a bit whishy on their upgrades, but splitting 1/1 on SPD and Zeal right now. Zeal is cool, but so is having 7 base speed.

    I've heard these guys, especially with Defender, can help out. Binding Chains also sounds alright. Not hugely drawn to the unit, though, and also don't have it. Need to get at least one to test. Why Life Siphon? Has that been doing anything?

    I've been running Distract/SPD, and he does fun stuff. As with Commander on Fanta Creeper, it's mostly there for the Carrionlings, for whom the +1 Range matters way more. Still not sold on him as a 2x either, and haven't tried Shroud. With how many activated abilities float around these days, Distract can help a lot. Have you tried Shroud at all? Has it helped?

    Now that he fits at a similar price-point, I've dropped him as well. Putrid puts in work, Bloodworm pops. Life Siphon, Multi, and Surge makes for a neat 3-piece, but he doesn't quite cut it right now. That's ok.

    Yeah, Vengeful feels like the wrong beat. Running Dread for now, but Aura/Unspeakable also gives him a lot of immunity out of the gate. I've just dropped Detection -- who cares about stealth, you can just deploy a unit in the font anyway.

    You should run 2. Really. Any time you use a BZ, imagine if all those units just died instead. That's why you run 2. Run 2.

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