Worms Ground Zero

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by kalasle, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Necrosis expands deployment zone,not dead magic zone.Dead zone voodoo is a pointless spell for worms.
    Snuff is cheap and counters alot of things.Pariah also means you cant use single target cleanse against it.
    I consider it an underrated spell and it worked well for me in worms,but you could use something else if you dont like snuff,worms are flexibile.
     
    TeaScholar likes this.
  2. PoxAurora

    PoxAurora New Member

    Worms...

    I don't claim to have the perfect response, so you guys may want to provide some input.
     
  3. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Use of non worm champions is now less viable but still useful.
    Bile zombie and chattering maws were nerfed but they are still useable.
    Twilight creeper got buffed and is great now.

    new can of worms.jpg
     
  4. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    A lot has change since the last time i played worms, but i have some questions, did bile zombie got nerfed? dusk creeper seems to be a whole new chamion, before it had this cool ability that recover nora globes, carrion colossus still seems very useless to the bg, are worm viable rn?
     
  5. kalasle

    kalasle I need me some PIE!

    Worms are crazy strong, Dusk is a core support champ, Colossus is a tier 1 tank, BZ got nerfed but is still the best rune in the deck.
     
  6. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Can you show me a sample bg?
     
  7. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Forgive me, but I never understood how, or why, a thread- purely about worms- got stickied.
     
  8. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Because its an incredibly useful and comprehensive guide/discussion about one of the hardest bgs to play in pox.
     
  9. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Really? I always found worms a little boring... Not too difficult compared to other FW themes. But I guess that's just me
     
  10. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Then chances are you're playing them incorrectly.
     
  11. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    To play them correctly i must have fun o_O?
     
    TeaScholar likes this.
  12. Regulate

    Regulate I need me some PIE!

    I don't see the mystery. Any time a theme from any faction gets a comprehensive guide / thread it normally ends up stickied. Why should this be any different.
     
    Tweek516 likes this.
  13. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    I guess that's a fair point
     
  14. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Talking about this bit:

    Not too difficult compared to other FW themes.
     
  15. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY Well-Known Member

    What spells and relics are good with worms? I'm guessing cheap spells and relics mainly, aside from creeping pulsate.

    Any stand out runes besides bile zombie and putrid creeper?

    Any non worms worth running besides pollured martyr? And bz
     
  16. kalasle

    kalasle I need me some PIE!

    Recent changes to necrosis means I am reconfiguring parts of this thread. This post is holding-spot for material getting removed from the OP.

    Worms-Specific Strategy and Description​


    Philosophy

    Essential Goal
    Control an increasing amount of space until you cover the entire board; space control done through Bile Zombie and one-sided disengagement rules​

    The Tide
    Multi-purpose movement forward and backward within, or out and in, expanded SDZ -- control space, create opportunities, stay safe, avoid giving AP​

    Optimization
    Absolutely necessary, because a single SDZ is a huge amount of value and can hinge on spending AP in just the right way; always look for every possible way to grow SDZ, or keep growth safe, and then compare value of SDZ to sacrifices for those plays; don’t play worms if your optimization fundamentals are bad, and learn worm-specific optimization​


    Playing against BZ, and against-against BZ

    Box Strats
    Champs placed on corners of 3x3, can only hit any two at a time, good when deck needs to stay bunched for value but also wants to minimize damage; reverse-countered by taking out a corner to bomb the remainder, taking the best two of however many available, or not using BZ​

    Wide Dispersal
    Often a counter during stagflation, units spread so that BZ can only hit one, maybe two at a time; reverse-countered by keeping champs on the board and forcing key engagements​


    Various Gamestates

    SDZ Stagflation
    Huge growth, very few champs on board, no way to make use of growth; over-investment in SDZ, under-protection of board pieces, exacerbated by direct deployment to thin frontline and use of BZ; managed by super-defensive deploys; a state resulting from mistakes​

    No-Growth Neutral
    Even or slightly minus on board, but no growth after long fight because of no Lord/death/Harvest triggers; disappointing, but not inherent catastrophe; managed by optimization and hanging back; a transitional state likely resulting from mistakes​

    A Healthy Lategame
    Core of units occupying fringe of SDZ, pressing out, about 10 or 15 growth depending on map; raw growth becomes less important at 20; a (the ideal) final state​

    Sacrificed Mid
    Early-mid game standoff, neutral on board presence, worms on edge of SDZ, but the opponent has mid-font; result of a conscious sacrifice to preserve SDZ growth options; a transitional state​



    Strategic Response​

    To Rush
    Keep champs on the board, with safe SDZ growth as a second priority; be careful with board presence to avoid stagflation​

    To Build Up
    Identify major threats, prevent them from establishing, leverage the rest of worms’ lategame to take over; deploy carefully during engagement periods to avoid stagflation​

    To Combo
    Worry less about SDZ, use worms’ various tools to dismantle the particular problem, bust out specific counters​

    To Hordes
    Hang back, farm the little guys for SDZ, and then convert that SDZ into hyper-efficient BZ bombs; crutch on those to close out the game​
     
  17. kalasle

    kalasle I need me some PIE!

    Cutting Pustule and Blinking. Pustule is neat but I really haven't figured out how to use it, and with Portal on CD and it costing 40 nora, I find it unlikely that I'll figure out anything profitable. Blinking rarely feels appropriate. It fills no specific role, it has an awkward RNG value when combined with its other abilities, and it often strikes me as a whim deploy rather than something that fills a purpose. I've swapped in one more Chattering Maw and, to experiment, a Stitched Librarian. The former helps flesh out the cheaper worm category -- I don't think it's a great rune, but I'm going to give it another whirl. Stitched Librarian is the other FW champ with Portal. I don't think that's worth it, but I want to see.

    I'm actually liking Bloodworm alright with Bleed/Hunter. He's an acceptable melee champ. Damage isn't great, but he's durable enough in a 1v1.
     
  18. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    What do you think of the new Twilight Creeper? 52 nora with Impatient seems pretty good.
     
  19. kalasle

    kalasle I need me some PIE!

    I was messing around with it a fair bit. I've swapped over to Initiative on both of them, honestly. Impatient really cuts his cost down, but it's harder to trigger an attack from deploy with him than you might think, AP isn't that powerful on him otherwise, and getting stuff out of the gate, whether Constrict or Binding Chains, is very strong. I'm not entirely against Impatient yet -- it certainly keeps his cost down -- but you end up giving up a lot of utility and durability. And yes, I think Binding Chains is a really obvious choice for U2.

    Edit: Also swapped to Consume on both Putrids. That ability is too powerful on them.
     
  20. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Yeah i was noticing mine taking a bit too much damage from it, Initiative seems good but Maw is so good for that already.
     

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