Yeti Painter Discussion

Am I really the only one who thinks the art / sprite is freakin' ugly?

 

I do.
The art can be seen as interesting to some eyes, however that sprite.... Ugh. Just looks like a freaking walking cow with those giant horns.

 

I don't mind it's art quality, but it's rune design. As Pede said, it looks interesting (to my eyes).

But where do you see paint on that Artwork? It looks more like blood spread all over it's body, with some psychedelic background as he's out of his mind for the last kill.

About it's sprite, I'm ok with it.

And it's abilities are totally random. I can see it being touched thousand of times to end like that, because I can tell which initial design was intended.

 

Maybe you should start doing 2 options on upgrades rather than 3, and keep the latter for abilities with levels.

 

I, as a yeti player can say that the Painter works quite fine in a yeti bg. One of few (if not the only one) reasonably priced ranged yetis. Commander gives a nice boost of damage and distract is always handy. His new ability works really well for shutting down long ranged units. Gotta say I'm pretty happy with him!
I think the artwork is fine, though the sprite is quite meh.
7/10 - not too bad, has worked it into my bg after a couple of tries.

 

You should be less vague with your requests. Art / Lore can be a decent selling point for some people. I never worked with artists but I imagine "draw me a yeti with some kind of cave painting in the background" and "draw me a yeti with an ice dragon fighting a fire fiend painted on the cave background" will cost about the same amount of money.
People (and with that I mostly mean me, but maybe somebody will agree) love that kind of stuff. Actually I still remember the thread somebody made because they thought they saw the Aurora Lancer in the art of the Crystal Elemental. People were hyped.

Stuff like that is pretty cool. Especially if it's foreshadowing. With the Painter there was a pretty neat chance to make either a reference or a spoiler. Instead it was just made butt-ugly.

 

I seriously look at him and see a yeti who just painted a cave, angrily.

About the abilities, Its original set was sad, bland, slightly overpowered and potentially buggy, so I asked Sok to try something else and he did. Yes he is a generic ranged support champion, but honestly Yetis have been in need of solid ranged champions since the death of Keeper. His upgrades are very interesting, but right now I would only pick the cheapest ones because most yetis don't have a shred of efficiency, although I believe that can be changed with little effort and zero OPness.

 

Posts like these trouble me.
And you know the reason why I feel this way, Lush, so don't take it personally.

 

I never do. But the truth is that what I said is wrong. The original design I talked about was actually from another player, which I believe never made it through. But it just stayed in my mind and I thought it was the original one, when in reality all it had was stats, attack and Compulsion, all upgrades were a blank.

Pede, what we do there is actually different from what you did in your council time( I know because I caught a bit of that too). Ideas go through several people before being approved, and despite the fact that sometimes things we didn't expect to pass( such as "hidden" mechanics) end up in meta, I'm confident that right now we are doing the best we can with what we have - and I mean primarily the Greens who do the actual hard work, then the council in a minor scale with its suggestions - and I feel that this is the right path to improve Pox.

Of course it's far from perfect as we are all people with different views and opinions, but seriously this is the closest we've ever been to any vague idea of balance in Poxnora IMHO.

 

Good, because we dont know each other so Im in no position to criticize you as a person, and I'm not doing that.

See, but this is where it starts getting tricky. Who did the "original" design? Because if it was anybody different from Sokolov, then I'm more worried. Because Sok loves these kind of players (bad, creative ones, that are "nice"), and they often have no idea on who to play this game. I mean, it's nice to have feedback from people, but the design should always from the guy who is getting paid to do it.

You can't really say that, because I was on the "council" 2 years before Geddens council was implemented, and you werent around then. Guess you didnt know that.

Funny, cause last I heard Sok said he was giving less and less "power" to the council. Weird.
Also, I'd really like to know who are the people active enough that you would consider "members" of the council. Because I personally know a couple that are there but never post anymore.

Well, dont get me wrong, we are always doing our best with what we have. Players never really get paid, so we are volunteers to help the game grow. Which is all fun and games until people start being too vocal about it.

Ok, even though I dont play anymore I can safely say this is very far away from the truth.

Either way, just a heads up: I'd really, really encourage you to play more since you are that active. It will help you be a better player and a better "council member". Cheers.

 

Well man, it sounds like you weren't in Council, because you're assuming things that never happened. Yes, Sok accepts opinions, but that doesn't mean he doesn't evaluate or changes them as he sees fit. That's pretty obvious. Everything is under his control, if that's your doubt.

About your "profile" about the players he took into council, if perhaps you were talking about me, remember, I was voted to join the council, not chosen.

You say that being a good player is a requirement to be in there, but we have had amazing players in council and now I ask you, where are the golden fruits of their labor? All I hear from those times is how pointless the discussions were, and that in the end little ended up passing because each person wanted to defend the faction they played so well with( not talking about you, of course).

Judging people for what one thinks of them and not for what they can actually do is what almost killed this game in the first place. I try my hardest to help everyone in there with any rune design or change proposals, try to keep my suggestion to maximize flavor and balance while respecting the several design boundaries and ability limits that exist.

To finish, I do play everyday, just not ranked games, which I watch a lot. That alone is doing more than many, and don't forget I'm very active in chat and forums.

And yea, it has never been fun and games to me, having seen people saying things like you do in a weekly basis since day one. And yet here we are.

 

I think the main thing is that stuff gets talked about.

It's a lot harder to both design and balance in a vacuum, and the more interested people comment in a reasonably intelligent way the more sok can refine the design.

 

And just one more thing I want to add: when I did play ranked games and became limited, all I used to hear was "it makes no difference, rank means nothing, you still suck." Now that I don't play ranked all I hear is "You don't play ranked, you can't balance this game, you suck".

To me this is one hell of a paradox. Unless that means that although I have seen almost everything there is to see in this game, learned from people who despite not being high level competitors contributed more than most( I don't even need to say names) and did a very small share of it myself, the fact that my name is usually in red at the end of a game makes me less apt to comprehend and suggest changes and designs to runes.

I can't express strongly enough how simplistic that line of thought seems.

 

@Lushiris, are you ok with Abominable?

 

Well, after seeing some comments and understanding costs, I actually am. It is 3 nora(2 nora is arctic) for pseudo detection and pseudo surge, it's actually a lot despite the 2 ap cost.

I managed to make a decent yeti BG: I believe that curate being VERY efficient( too efficient in any other theme but yetis), Druid having cleansing aura and Painter being a cheap ranged champion with Commander allowed yetis to have an early game they didn't have. It took me a while to realize it because I didn't have painters until very recently.

I'm finding them very solid with all the conditions they can apply now: coumpulsion, distract, the tons of majestic they have always applied, stun and of course fear. All these make up for their lack of bonus defense.

 

@Lushiris I meant, if you like it's design. We all can agree it's not a weak ability nor it's badly costed.

 

I'm not going to even touch the post before this one, because those are personal opinions and I have mine and you have yours. I will just add 2 things:
1) On Soks first time on Pox design things went incredibly well, even with all the things you assume you know (which you are really in no position to talk about, but whatever);
2) Yes, being good at this game is a requirement to help balancing it. The fact that you explicitly said you don't play anymore is mindblowing, to say the least. But yeah, keep watching those games, I'm sure in time you will absorb all that knowledge through osmosis.

But the quoted post right here shows how much you LACK on the balance/design department.
Honestly man, if I had lost my hopes for this game before you just put the nail on the coffin.
I'm sorry but you have 0 clue on Yetis, how they should be played and what they lack, and Yetis are a fairly common ST theme. I wonder what you think about the others.
Actually, I dont, balance away...
Jeez.

 

Or, you could stop being pessimistic and actually say where do you think I'm wrong, and maybe even suggest ways of improvement. I'll make it very clear to you: I don't mind being wrong, it's just a chance to get it right. What I can't stand is people personally judging others because of their mistakes, when they could actually help.

If you were born with all the world's knowledge congratulations, but I feel that honesty and trust are more important traits to a person than "knowing". That is why I'm not alone there, we all have a chance to get it right, and to be corrected when wrong. People make mistakes, and people that imply that they don't sound seriously firked up to me.

When I make a mistake and acknowledge it, it becomes a mistake I will never make again. Dwelling on the same things forever only allows one to stay stuck with the same problem. If this makes me an idiot and unsuitable to be in council, hell you can have my spot.

For example, some people know I'm not on good terms with @Ballballer . But despite the fact that he simply behaves like he knows everything and never truly seems to think about what he says, I'm enough of a man to admit I was wrong when I said yetis were bad( like I stated above, before I tried painter myself), although I have my doubts if he said that because he actually studied the yeti theme or just "guessed", like he seems to do a lot( which I realized by watching him play non-SP BG's). This paragraph was written to make you understand how I discuss Poxnora. The only people who don't like me here are the ones that do not want(or are unable) to hold a proper conversation. And don't get me wrong, I don't do this with people who don't question me personally, but in all fairness, that fact that he did entitles me to do the same to him. My standard position is to help people( if they're willing to be helped) improve in this game, with no judgement.

And this is what I do @Pedeguerra , I look at runes and watch games daily more than many. Despite only having something like 1700 games played, I have used most of my opportunities to actually understand all I can. That is why I will never accept people saying I don't know anything about this game, because I actually dedicated more time to understand it than some people did to obtain high ranks.

Lastly and most important, if you think that the fact that I didn't have a solid foresight of yetis becoming good after their changes was a bad thing, and that I should've predicted that a BG only I am using( fivestar5 is playing yetis very differently) would be solid( again, nobody actually explained why yetis are good other than myself), you're always welcome to actually start making constructive criticism in the crate, here, or anywhere else. If you think that picking interactions among more than 5 champions - IMO small interactions make Yetis strong as a group, not only specific runes - is very easy, then be my guest. Few things in Pox would make me personally happier than actually seeing you play this game again.

You don't need to reply, but I wish this post opens your mind about how I do things just a little bit.