You didn't watch the presidential debate last night

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BurnPyro, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Can you explain the thought process that leads to an asinine statement such as this one? I can only assume you are talking about his infidelity, which is morally awful but which only has one real victim.
    Unless his antics were not consensual (and there has been no evidence that they were not), the only person harmed by Bill's actions is Hillary. It was seen as a character flaw that led to his impeachment, and you are right in finding that this character flaw parallels what we have seen and heard from Donald Trump regarding women, but turning that into an attack on Hillary is a clear case of blaming the victim. It is that exact thought process that sees **** victims get stoned to death in other parts of the world. It is not cool.
    BurnPyro, Tweek516, Lushiris and 2 others like this.
  2. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    actually I think it was lying about it that was the problem.

    But I do not disagree with your message.
  3. StormChasee

    StormChasee The King of Potatoes

    Simple even though the arrogance of your reply doesn't deserve a reply. Hillary showed absolutely no empathy for the women who were victimized by Bill Clinton. Some of these women have leveled serious accusations against him. She was part of the politics of personal destruction against these women essentially making them victims even more.

    Trump has had some bad words. Bill and Hillary have had bad actions.

    As a former USAF officer I know any hope of a career would have been shot if I had done even what Bill had admitted to doing with Monica Lewinski.

    I'm not real warm to Donald Trump, but Hillary Clinton makes my stomach turn. I'm not going to watch tonight's debate either. I'll watch either the baseball playoff game or the NFL football game.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  4. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    I will walk that previous comment back a little bit. The only acts that have really gotten a lot of attention are the Lewinsky and Paula Jones. I have done a bit of reading on Juanita Broaddrick, and if that one is true (and it's hard to know either way but you certainly can't discount it) that is pretty Firking serious.
  5. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Bernie 2016.
    Comissar likes this.
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It's the typical false equivalency defense that the right loves to employ. Let's pretend that consensual infidelity is the same as sexual assault.

    I feel that the idea that Trump hasn't had bad actions is insane, in general. Personally, I'd go so far as to suggest that Trump has been a net negative to society.

    In this specific instance, while the tape is not evidence of action or a confession, his words imply that these are things he DID, not just TALKS or THINKS about.

    There's been a lot of serious accusations against Trump (not paying people, using illegals, sexual assault/****, thousands of lawsuits, multiple on-going investigations, etc.), but apparently accusations only count against you if you are a Clinton in this election.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
    Comissar likes this.
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I honestly don't know how much of that side of things to believe. There's been a lot of official and journalist investigations of the Clinton over the years and very little proof has come out of it all. I will grant there's a lot of interesting stuff that could be true, but there's nothing concrete or they'd actually be in jail now.

    Also, the latest "leaks" were either not actually from the Clinton Foundation (Gufficer 2.0) or actually benefits her (Speech transcripts which show her as more progressive than the media protrays her, which will actually help her among liberals who think she is too centrist).
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    In either case, I still think allowing Clinton to win would be a strategic mistake on the part of the DNC. They needed to throw this election so a Republican is in office when the global economy falters against in the next 4-8 years, then grab the Senate/Congress during the next mid-terms and presidential election. If a Democrat wins now, it'll just mean the GOP maintains the other two branches for another 8 years probably, allowing them to further gerrymander the districts in their favor in 2020.

    The war for Gerrymandering in 2020 is already in full swing - and this is the REAL battle that should be fought, but Americans are too busy on which candidate is worse when the entire system is broken.

    Here is the Republican blog post for "REDMAP 2020":

    "REDMAP 2020 is modeled after the RSLC’s successful REDistricting MAjority Project (REDMAP) program in 2010 that was instrumental in Republicans picking up 21 new legislative majorities that year and putting Republicans in a strong position before the decade’s redistricting. Similarly, REDMAP 2020 will prioritize electing Republican legislators in states across the country in an effort to keep and expand Republican-controlled legislative chambers in advance of 2020 redistricting.

    REDMAP 2020 will work to maintain the historic highs we hold today, including those in Obama-blue states, while working to pick up additional majorities in states like Kentucky, Maine and New Mexico where the legislatures play a vital role in crafting district boundaries, and Republicans currently control only one of the two state chambers."

    "On November 6, 2012, Barack Obama was reelected President of the United States by nearly a three-point margin, winning 332 electoral votes to Mitt Romney’s 206 while garnering nearly 3.5 million more votes. Democrats also celebrated victories in 69 percent of U.S. Senate elections, winning 23 of 33 contests. Farther down-ballot, aggregated numbers show voters pulled the lever for Republicans only 49 percent of the time in congressional races, suggesting that 2012 could have been a repeat of 2008, when voters gave control of the White House and both chambers of Congress to Democrats.

    But, as we see today, that was not the case. Instead, Republicans enjoy a 33-seat margin in the U.S. House seated yesterday in the 113th Congress, having endured Democratic successes atop the ticket and over one million more votes cast for Democratic House candidates than Republicans.

    Pennsylvanians reelected a Democratic U.S. Senator by nearly nine points and reelected President Obama by more than five points, but at the same time they added to the Republican ranks in the State House and returned a 13-5 Republican majority to the U.S. House.

    On a statewide level, in 2012, Wisconsin voters elected a Democratic U.S. Senator by nearly six points and reelected President Obama by nearly seven points, but still returned a 5-3 Republican majority to Congress, including the GOP vice presidential nominee, Representative Paul Ryan.

    The 2012 election was a huge success for Democrats at the statewide level in Michigan: voters elected a Democratic U.S. Senator by more than 20 points and reelected President Obama by almost 10 points. But Republicans at the state level maintained majorities in both chambers of the legislature and voters elected a 9-5 Republican majority to represent them in Congress.

    With the election of Republican John Kasich to the governor’s mansion, the GOP controlled the redrawing of 132 state legislative and 16 congressional districts. Republican redistricting resulted in a net gain for the GOP state House caucus in 2012, and allowed a 12-4 Republican majority to return to the U.S. House of Representatives – despite voters casting only 52 percent of their vote for Republican congressional candidates.

    Your "democracy" in action, ladies and gentlemen - where your party can get less votes and still win a majority, or only get 52% of the vote but gets 75% of the seats.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    You could always PM me, but honestly, I have read a lot of stuff... and most of the "proof" doesn't seem convincing to me, isn't properly sourced, or can't be corroborated.
  10. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    fun fact- sok over-rides normal mods because he is the superior being.

    having said that, what proof would require a mod's greenlight?
  11. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    We didn't like the GOPe before this, them disavowing Trump changes nothing.
    Baskitkase likes this.
  12. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    Was that a debate I just tuned in to, or did their babysitters just get too drunk and pass out?
  13. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    Vote Gary Johnson, people!
    darklord48 likes this.
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    What is Gary Johnson? Is it in Syria? Or is it a foreign leader?
    BurnPyro and SPiEkY like this.
  15. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    I blame the refrigeration engineers manufacture of CFC/HCFC refrigerants for a large percentage of global warming dmg done over the past 81 yrs not so much vehicle pollution. Since 1935 people were venting CFC refrigerants into the atmosphere. It wasn't until 1989 that they finally realized this was bad and declared it unlawful by a vote of 100 countries passing the Montreal protocol. One Chlorine molecule released from a refrigerant molecule is capable of destroying 100,000 ozone molecules. Not fair to blame the sum of global warming on carbon monoxide pollution or CH chains alone.
    SPiEkY likes this.
  16. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Votes are biodegradeable, throw them in the green bin, not the yellow/black bin for toxic waste.
  17. Comissar

    Comissar I need me some PIE!

    Ehh... You're right that CFC's were/are pretty bad, and to the best of my knowledge (without looking it up) they are the main issue with creating a hole in the Ozone layer, but that isn't really directly what's leading to Climate Change. Instead it just makes it easier for radiation to penetrate the atmosphere. Remember that the hole is now closing, but temperatures, atmospheric CO2, and ocean acidity are continuing to increase.

    Also, Carbon Monoxide isn't the major pollutant, Carbon Dioxide is. CO is definitely the more poisonous of the two, but it's also produced in much smaller quantities. CO2 is produced as a byproduct of pretty much every industrial process, Concrete manufacturing in particular is a major source of it. Equally, while Methane (I assume you mean methane and its ilk by CH chains) is definitely a way worse greenhouse gas than CO2, it's also being produced in far far far smaller quantities right now. Emphasis on right now, because there is the worrying potential of methane hydrates in the oceans, and methane trapped in the permafrost, being released. At that point methane will be a major problem, and in all likelihood we won't be able to reverse the damage (it's possible it's already too late, which is A) no reason to stop trying, and B) worrying beyond belief).

    Edit - Basically, both are pretty bad for the environment, just in different ways.
    Tweek516 and Geressen like this.
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    By the way, on the subject of steel and China...

    I would like to point out that the US already has heavy tariffs against China in this area (and other areas as well), and cold-rolled steel from China specifically has a 500% tariff already.

    So I am not sure what Trump's plans to "win" are in trade (mostly because he barely explains himself), but I suppose he might at least stop buying Chinese steel to build his buildings as a start?
  19. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    PurpleTop likes this.
  20. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    "Those are giants riding mammoths down there! You think your cold rolled steel is gonna stop them?"
    -logical American

    "There's no such thing as giants"
    -The rest of America

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