You didn't watch the presidential debate last night

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BurnPyro, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Yet you can't get your own country to invest even a fraction of what the US does in RE research. Yeah, totally need to worry about the great USA.
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  2. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    *puts self in position of world power*
    *is suprised when world needs a world power to go in the right direction*
    *drops the ball, then the soap, then slides all the way to the foot of the hill*
  3. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    It's true that the UK government recently took away some grants for renewable energy companies.

    And unlike a lot of (well two very vocal) Europeans here, I don't think the US is such a bad place, even politically, I'm sure it has it's problems, but I live in a country where an important part of the parliamentary process is played by hereditary Lords - so meh.

    I also think that at least the US is talking about lobbying, here it's all done out of sight and rarely gets talked about. Which I think is true in a lot of Europe.

    But having said that, I don't know where you got the idea that the UK doesn't invest in renewable energy research - I struggled to find much conclusive data on it, but there is a lot of research being done here. (edit) like this:

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  4. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  5. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    military R&D is part of a good national defense program, one of the few legitimate functions of government.
  6. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    the word you are looking for is 'no'.

    "do you apply this rule universaly?"
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  7. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    I see what you mean about environmentalism being overtly anti-capitalist. I was trying to be generous.

    I don't think you intend to destroy America, but good intentions pave the road to hell.

    And I certainly agree that Socialism (statist collectivism) has been eroding America since at least the Great Society.

    I am against the government interfering with business on principle, as you know. If Trump is going to act to alleviate this interference and tax burden to save jobs, I'm all for it. I'd rather the whole thing be reformed, but I guess that's a longer-term goal.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  8. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty
    Read about what Central Planning (or Stalinism) specifically refers to. It's direct allocation of resources to circumvent the free market. Central planning does not refer to every thing that a centralized power does, ever. So national defense, laws, etc. are not examples of central planning. Central planning is an economic model.

    Regarding the interstate commerce act, railroads are probably the #1 best example of what results when you allow government to pick winners and losers: massive coercive monopolies that eventually lead to even more regulation to stop the exploitation of captive customers.

    The Federal Reserve should be dismantled. Farm subsidies are absolutely stalinist, regardless of if it's done by a "conservative darling." My position has never been that Republicans are innocent of helping the growth of Socialism within our government, nor is my position that this erosion is new. So I agree with your thesis.
    DarkJello likes this.
  9. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    Do you feel the overall military budget needs to remain as large as it is, or could it be cut by some percentage? I feel that while military spending is a necessity, the budget could be cut by 30% over time. We would still have the largest military budget in the world, but not by as large of a factor. I would make the cuts in foreign operations. I feel the military is for national defense, not global defense. The UN can handle global peace keeping missions, and we can contribute to that more, instead of going on our own.
  10. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    I agree with you, and with Trump. We do not need to be the globe's policeman, and our allies are rich enough to start ponying up some dough. I agree with reducing the budget overall. Plus, I think some of the R&D is amazingly wasteful. Not sure how to reform it. Also, the military-industrial complex and conflicts of interest therein need to be examined and broken up. We're buying tanks and jets that we don't need just because we need jobs for these defense contractors and their employees. It's pretty f|_|cked.
    DarkJello, SPiEkY and badgerale like this.
  11. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    But couldn't it be contracted out to mercenaries? Surely that would be more in the spirit of free enterprise?

    (I'm not trying to be a smart ****, just interested in where this goes)
  12. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    I think that's primarily what is done already, is it not?
  13. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    so your intentions are not good or I need you to roll the dice for logical consistency.

    goverment limits on certain things and stimulus of others hardly equates to a 5 year economic plan XD ( which is a terrible idea)
  14. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I guess in the R & D side it is.

    Though the actual soldiers, and the logistics and such are state run - so i was thinking more as in a mercenary force of soldiers who supply their own weapons and are contracted for jobs.
  15. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    soldiers are cheaper than mercenaries.
  16. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    Interesting idea. I think it should be considered!
    I also think alternatives to taxation need to be considered. Like gov't charging for services such as civil contract enforcement. This way they are charging only for value provided for a service only they perform, based on utilization. This would also be a form of progressive taxation that the poor wouldn't suffer from. Just an idea.
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    My point exactly. You can't deride everything left-wing as "Stalinist central planning" unless you use that generous definition ACROSS THE BOARD.
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  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    So when Obama gives tax breaks to renewable energy companies to stimulate innovation and create jobs, it is "interference" and "central planning."

    If Trump promises tax breaks to specific Department of Defense contractors to "save" jobs, it is "alleviating interference?"

    (Also, this UTX/Carrier that is still moving 1300 out of 2400 jobs out of the US to Mexico also happens to make billions off the "military industrial complex" via DoD contracts, just for the sake of a more complete picture of what is actually happening here.)
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
    newsbuff likes this.
  19. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty


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  20. NevrGonaGivUup

    NevrGonaGivUup I need me some PIE!

    Are you accusing supporters of God-Emperor Donald Trump of being biased? That's left-wing hippie mind-control sheep-speak!

    Also fun fact: The first suggested result when you type "god emperor" into google is "god emperor trump".

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