So to clarify, all melee champions in KF gain the equivalent of a rank of MA which stacks with other MA?. So, it looks pretty powerful on my first reading of it and while I cannot deny the fun of seeing Wild Elf and Elven Shade double tap for 4ap, perhaps we should examine other champions in the facions, sans +1spd, with the mentioned bonus before declaring it a a great idea.
The first attack would cost 3 AP and the second attack would also cost 3 AP in FF (6 AP for a double tap). I know that is a pretty decent bonus. Keep in mind that KF champs will be slower after the revamp and will have the same AP Cap as everyone else. Currently, a 6 SPD champion, with full AP (12 AP with +1 SPD and +1 AP Cap) can move four spaces and double tap. With this propsed bonus a 6 SPD champion would still be able to move 4 spaces and double tap. The only difference is that the champions in FF KF won't so regularly have access to 8 SPD champions. Again, this is a pretty strong alternate bonus but is a decent one to at least consider.
From another standing it can be argued that consistently once the players become engaged in drawn out font battles this new bonus would trump the old. For example a 7spd champion, after expending it's ap the previous round, would be able to double tap if the enemy is standing adjacent to it under the current bonus while this new bonus would allow a champion to move a space and then double tap which sounds small but that increased flexibility adds up. In fact unless i'm mistaken in every instance before the current-bonus champion hit's the increased ap bump, the new-bonus champion will be able to move just that bit more. If i'm wrong on that then my apologies. I'm not discounting the impact of speed on positioning, on font grabbing or on any other issues that it becomes important, but if we're attempting to tone down the Faction Bonus' perhaps we should look at one which doesn't give us some decent benefits over the original? Though of course the change to ranged champions is a different tone entirely and may very well be the balancing issue since in this example it's the melee champions who benefit the most from this change.
Now i have a good solution that should make everyone happy. Do all this: 1. Kf get weaker version of sl bonus: +2 dmg to all and +1 max ap. For split +1 dmg and +1 ap. 2. Let all kf champs get speed adjusted to +1 more all over the board (from now its designer who makes kf high speed, not bonus) 3. To compensate for +1 speed increase, adjust dmg -2 on all kf champs (on some might need slight nora adjustment too) So as result, kf lose their speed bonus so all the kf nerfers are happy. Also all kf players should be happy because now basically kf is the same like before, give or take some small nora adjustments. Also no one can complain kf has some kind of op bonus, its like a light version of sl with the +1 max ap cap that all said was so bad before anway.
So lets remove the KF bonus so 8 speed champs become 7 speed and then give them an additional 1 speed so they become 8 speed yet again. GENIUS!
I offered a multitude of ideas and I agree it is a strong replacement but I don't think it will have such a big impact as you think. Not saying it won't be strong, just not as strong as straight up +1 speed and ap. It will just mean we will have a bigger threat range more than anything I think. Aside from that I like the other suggestion better: FF: +1 speed for one round after one attack or ability is used with a minimum cost of 1 ap. Can only trigger once per turn per champ. Split: +1 speed for one round after two attacks or abilities are used with a minimum cost of 1 ap. Can only trigger once per turn per champ.
too complicated, faction bonus must be something simple and passiv, not something u must think about activating every turn.
How about these variations that grant extra AP occasionally instead of regularly, and still remain mostly passive. FF: When you deploy a champion, friendly champions you control gain +2 ap SPLIT: When you deploy a champion, friendly champions you control gain +1 ap Edit: triggered once per turn alternate to above: FF: When you deploy a champion, friendly champions you control gain +1 ap SPLIT: When you deploy a champion, friendly champions you control that share a race with the deployed champion gain +1 ap. Edit: triggered once per turn or something similar to Forage: +1 AP when capturing nora globe (not sure about split bonus) or FF: When a champion destroys an enemy champion using a basic attack, it gains +2 AP SPLIT: When a champion destroys an enemy champion using a basic attack, it gains +1 AP (might be too much, but maybe something similar?) or When you deploy a champion, friendly champions you control gain "mobility" for some number of turns.... These are just off the top of my head, so they could use some tweaking...
One more: Similar to logistics, after a certain number of champions are deployed after each champion, that champion gains +1 speed permanently. The number of champions needed to trigger would be higher for split, and lower for FF. I know this idea might not be great because of it's heavy reliance on counting and keeping track of obscure mechanics... but I thought I would throw it out there anyway.
I like the last one, im gonna have lots of samplings deploy 3 champs a turn and get +6 ap almost as powerfull like those fw spells
Well, in my mind, this would only trigger once per turn. If it worked like you were hoping (or as I wrote it) it would be insane.
Based off this idea the SPD bonus could be tied to time, instead of deploys... FF KF- After each friendly champion has been in play for 2 rounds that champion permanently gains +1 SPD. SPLIT KF- After each friendly champion has been in play for 4 rounds that champion permanently gains +1 SPD. Pros: -It even splits between FF and Split -It slows down KF's early game advantage -Every champion in the game will now have a MAX AP CAP of 4 (instead of 5 for KF) -It is thematic for the faction Cons -Non-KF champions may eventually gain +1 SPD, which they weren't designed for (but they do have to wait twice as long for it to kick in) -KF champions will still have to have their base SPD set with the bonus in mind
Could it not just be FF any champion with 6 base spd or less gets +1spd + Ap cap Split KF Any Champion with 6 base Spd or less gets +1spd Then actually something like a mountain garu wouldn't be hindered by the reduction as it has bonus speed still to 8
This is a good idea untill you realize being 6 speed in KF would be a nerf over being a 5 speed champ
That is problem with any speed bonus is that it will inevitably be countered by removing 1 speed on the base champion, essentially turning it into a nora discount instead. We really need to think of a bonus that can't be countered by rune design so easily. That is the dilemma. It's hard to think of a "mobility" themed bonus that can do this. Here's another of my ideas to try and convey high speed without actual speed: FF: At the beginning of the match 2 champion runes are revealed. SPLIT: At the beginning of the match 1 champion rune is revealed. (I don't like it a whole lot because it's really only useful once in a match... but, since draw can easily make or break a game, it could be pretty good. Also, instead of revealing extra runes, the champions could just be guaranteed as part of the default reveal. I know on matches when I don't get a champ, I would love to have had this as a bonus. But otherwise it might seem useless.
ok here is another shot: give all KF +2 max ap/+1 max ap and KF mobility (2 ap to disengage) Dont really like this one though, but it nerfs FF a bit and buffs split a bit. Seems in line what ppl want too.
I'm fine with a bonus like that. I haven't really read enough of what @Sokolov has been saying to give an informed opinion, it's just I feel like a lot of attention needs to be paid to rebalancing the faction as a result of this change. It's much bigger than any other faction bonus change that we've seen recently.
Seems like an awful lot of work for DoGz with, in my pessimistic opinion, little to no upside. If they nerf an entire faction too much, all Hades will break loose. If they buff KF by even one atom, all Hades will break loose. If they make all the changes and KF is just as powerful, all Hades will break loose. Changing the faction bonus and rebalancing hundreds of champs seems like a very tall order. Good luck with that. Easier to just rebalance problem champs, as they appear, IMO.
