(NEW) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

I would argue that it allows for a wider play experience.

 

Righto - go ahead and do so in the faction bonus thread. Best to consolidate this discussion there.

 

It was considered for a time and even posted on the forum for player feedback. The response was an avalanche of negative comments from both sides of the isle with such intensity that it was scrapped.

While the idea has merits it would end up reducing the flavor and fun of the other factions while not giving FW anything tangible.
After discussing this it was then suggested that instead of negating the bonus it would be stealing the enemy bonus instead.

This was met with less apathy from the community but proved distasteful for FW and the current designer. Mostly because it would make FW champions very hard to balance due to bonus interactions. Also, it would make bg building very difficult and random for FW the power would vary wildly for each bg based on what faction it was playing against.

 

Corpse collection, black ops and serkan's touch still seeem pretty bad IMO.

 

Ok, suggestions then?

 

Black Ops could be turned into some form of sabotage/infiltration spell. First thought was cancelling the next hidden effect cast by the enemy, but that doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

Black Ops: target champion get surge shadows and shadowshift, is for stealth units
or
Black Ops: target champios get 2 ranks of assasinate, shadowshift and short lived one, but this sound op tho.

Serkan's touch: make it just cripple and debilitate for 30 nora or 35, those ones are the ones that we need to kill the unit, when i used ST people just went back and wait for the effect to end, maybe if the champ still have the damage theyll leave the champ there and we go for the kill.

Corpse collection: no idea

 

Yobanchi had a suggestion from the old faction bonus thread of some promise:
"Deployment
FF: You may deploy champions on spaces containing nora globes within your spell presence.
SF: You may deploy champions on spaces containing nora globes adjacent to your champions.
Probably the most difficult to code but still thematic. Works with creeps."

Would probably have to be nerfed a bit so you can't summon in their deployment zone or something. Wouldn't synergize with creeps at all. Would probably be powerful.

As to patch changes, can we discuss angel, doomy, sarinda and wretched witch? Is anyone really running these now? Also,n reading over the thread, I see that many feel we need some tank options and I believe angel, ww, doombringer could play the tankiness role we need using abilities that blunt the opponent, dread/fear/

Angel - key has always been dread + supremacy + range + life drinker + speed which enabled her to be a very tanky champ and tank up FW while supplying some solid beats. new form is a not very tanky superchamp wannabe (damage, tank, sustain at once) but does none of them well. Would like to see her play the role of sustainable champ who has decent damage over time and contributes to the overall tankiness of fw, though I don't know what this looks like exactly. Angels should be more flavorful! Could this be our tank?

Wretched witch - defining role was always to control the front line as a caster by slowing down/area denial while doing chip damage. I don't like attach or disease breath or disease eater as her defining traits, not even close to cool. What abilities could she have that gives her back that legendary rune worthy uniqueness as a tempo controller while keeping nora low? mindwipe is good, poison cloud is meh (how much does it cost?). I also have a problem with all witches because of the KF bonus effect--witch enabling spell/relic so good that witches need a prenerf so they are only top tier in witches. I would like to see her as a wizard with some other name.

Sarinda - hero, no hero, she needs a little help. I don't know about you folks but for me she is defined by relocate foe shenanigans, dark healing has always been a nice but odd addition. I would like to see relocate enemy over dark healing on main and elsari coven/dark healing/something over pointless damage shield. In now vacant main slot, she should get something else added then, or a nice cost decrease to go with this tighter, bloatless form with a signficant alternative build where she has dark healing. I want to see her restored to her role in the relocated harvest BG! Super unique and cool, and to me very flavorful. Also, same thing with witches as before, would like her generally viable.

Doombringer - Doomy, like angel, had significant range beats while also globally increasing the tank of fw with self sustain. New iteration is a very pricey long range pea shooter with slight sustain and perhaps can lock down an enemy champ per turn. Fright is interesting and flavorful but not very useful and dead vs FW and constructs. Not sure how to get this guy to interesting, I feel like he needs a total restart to get to something interesting.

Haunting Spirit - watched him in a few games, solid damage over time, slows pace, excellent contest vs physical super champ, insanely cheap. Real. Big. Shame. that this is the spirit that has 0 availability. Would like to see the disturbed spirit duplicate this guy or something.

Like where you guys went putting serkan back towards where he should be. Would prefer to see cone over d strike. Xulos seems fine. Venger seems ok, but he seems to suffer the same as angel/ww/doomy, he doesn't really do anything all that well and is 20 nora more than champs that are just generally solid beaters. I agree that fix heroes first, but I would like for us to try and create some role definement for these general goodstuff high rarity runes that could play in many ways. Venger is a perfect example of what le/leg/exos should not be--efficiency runes without much flavor. When he was first out he was undercosted, played and hated. Then he was nerfed and over just shoeboxed. Now we had a revamp and he is OK, dull and not played.

 

ideas for runes,
Black Ops: target champion is steathed and gains detection rank 1
corpse collection : target champion gains soul collection
Serkans touch: add defiled 10 to the list of ailments the spell inflicts
the faction bonus could give minor reduced cooldowns for spells, like 2 for ff and 1 for split in addition to what it currently does?

 

Black Ops: Target Friendly Real Champion gains Swag.

Swag: Swag.

 

black ops should make all your opponents champs invisible... to him.

 

how about this for black ops

black ops: target owned stealthed champion opposing champions within 3 spaces of the target become marked and receive -1 defense til the end of the turn

 

How about this?

Black Ops:
25 nora. Target friendly champ gains shadowshift.

Or

Black Ops:
50 nora. Target friendly champ gain stealth and shadowshift

 

Black Ops:
Target champion gains Preperation.

MWAHAHAHHA

 

@yobanchi

There's a lot of good discussion going on here and I'm pleased with many of the results so I'll focus on some of the runes getting less attention than others:

Item #3) Problematic Champions:

Dusk Creeper - [7 DMG | 6 SPD | 2-4 RNG | 0 DEF | 45 HP] - Race: Arthropod Worm

Path 1 = Cloak 1 | Improve Damage | Improve Range
Path 2 = Protective | Startle | Surge: Shadows
Base = Attack: Sonic | Domain: Shadows | Necrosis | Still Life
(Default upgrades = Cloak 1 + Startle)​

He must lose Race: Undead if he's going to be considered anything other than an over-efficient nora monkey. Undead is too prolific to have access to Improve Damage/Range and there are already other hoover vacs in FW (Death Harvester and Soul Collector). Also, your suggested change to Corpse Collection will further muddy the waters. I think it's a good fit for the spell, but not for this champ. Drop the nora kit, give him situational damage and adjust his stats to suit his new role as a mid-range support attacker. These abilities also reconnect him to FW Stealth BGs.


Item#4) Unusable Runes

Black Ops [25-35N] - Target champion gains Stealth. If it already has Stealth, it gains Ambush, instead.

This version is flavorful and doesn't require a name change. Preparation is nice, but given the intentional nerfs to range during the revamp, I'm not sure it's a good idea to hand out with a spell. I wish there was a melee version of Preparation, though. Something like "Anticipation" which grants +2 DMG (up to +10 or 5 stacks) at the end of any turn it hasn't attacked but is reset immediately after the champion's next attack rather than at the end of that turn.

Mist of The Dead [30-35N] - This relic has Shroud and takes 50% less damage from ranged attacks and spells. When champions within 3 spaces would take disease damage they instead lose that much life.

I agree that another source of Amplify Disease is warranted, but I don't think it should be on this relic. Shroud preserves some of its previous function, matches the rune's art/flavor and provides a more active function than just damage conversion.


Item#6) Backup Quality of life Ideas

Mindthief Creeper - [8 DMG | 6 SPD | 2-3 RNG | 0 DEF | 45 HP] - Race: Arthropod Worm

Path 1 = Adaptation | Psychic Jab | Reflection 3
Path 2 = Energy Thief | Escape | Reinforcement 1
Base = Attack: Psychic | Evasive 2 | Necrosis | Paralyze | Still Life
(Default upgrades = Psychic Jab + Energy Thief)​

Gedden has openly confessed that he doesn't like Brain Eater. I am inclined to agree and would prefer it be phased out. Adding the Assimilate/Dead Eater pairing to another Worm overlaps with Dusk Eater (unless changed per above) and other previously mentioned nora monkeys. It's just not necessary and it wouldn't make me any more likely to run him. Psychic Jab provides synergy both in (multiple psychic attackers) and out of theme. Return Energy Thief while trading Shadowspawn for Still Life to prevent it from being too strong in an expanded SDZ environment. You'll know where he enters play but he'll sneak about more easily.

Phantasmal Creeper - [12 DMG | 6 SPD | 1-2 RNG | 0 DEF | 38 HP] - Race: Arthropod Worm

Path 1 = Magical Aura 2 | Magical Bomb 1 | Magic Nova 3
Path 2 = Curse 2 | Hex 2 | Magical Attack
Base = Attack: Physical | Ethereal | Mirrored | Necrosis
(Default upgrades = Magical Nova 3 + Hex 2)​

I'm glad that you agree with removing Race: Undead (at least for this champ) and mentioned this line of thinking with regards to other Worms. That said, he doesn't need his cost lowered by removing his DMG; he needs more options. With a horn like that, give him a physical attack with a lil' reach.Build everything else around Ethereal's timer. Mirrored might seem odd alongside Ethereal, but I've tapped his health to account for this. Ideally, it allows for a more aggressive positioning. He'll go down quickly to physical attackers but be less vulnerable while incorporeal.

 

A lot of exos/legs got hit pretty hard with the revamp.I understand a lot of people crutched on efficient expensive runes before but the focus should be on balancing the faction as whole,not just buffing legs.

 

I personally see champs in two primary genera--efficiency and unique. Both genera can fit in the more traditional model of tank, superchamp, healer support, "hoover", and etc.

I believe that your exo/leg/le champs should be something exciting to "open", not a slightly more efficient version of ordinary champs. If that were the case we would quickly run into the issue where the best deck is the most expensive deck, which is counterproductive to a healthy playerbase and also dull!

They should have a definite role and shape that brings something unique to the field, something that makes you say "that is interesting! how do I incorporate that, it would play rather differently than a normal rune, I would have to..." For those of you with an MTG background I think you will recall the Timmy, Johnny, Spike concept. I believe that anyone should be able to use themes and common/uncommon/rare to put together an interesting, mechanically rich deck with power. The role of the high rarity card is not high power level but unique capacity, something we are excited to get and try to make work so in turn something we are excited to get our hands on. IT is ALWAYS a crushing feeling to open a pack of magic cards and get a "jank rare"--this is somewhat mitigated by the forge though not completely (no Le/Leg)--but in truth the feeling of a poor common is shrug the feeling of a poor rare is frustration. Additionally, since these runes are so much rarer and harder to get a hold of I think this is exactly where unique runes belong.

Lastly, on priorities, I definitely agree that heroes first, then turning down accidentally overpowered meta runes (diversity warped by these), but I do not agree with unshoeboxing random absolutely awful flavorless low rarity next...from a design standpoint it sounds like bad business (where is the incentive to buy?) and from a player perspective it's really disappointing to see such interesting runes in other factions while ours fail to inspire. My challenge to you: how would you make these guys flavorful/mechanically rich/strategically intriguing without autoinclude efficiency in every BGs (see comments on Venger above, he is perfect example of what NOT to do with high rarity rune, see Sarinda, I think with slight tweaks she is a great example of a solid high rarity rune. Spellkaiser=unique playstyle not OP, Vex super cool ability that synergizes with high cost champs a centerpiece rune in that specific strategy).

Johnny is the creative gamer to whom Magic is a form of self-expression. Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style. It’s very important to Johnny that he win on his own terms. As such, it's important to Johnny that he's using his own deck. Playing Magic is an opportunity for Johnny to show off his creativity.Johnny is the creative gamer to whom Magic is a form of self-expression. Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style. It’s very important to Johnny that he win on his own terms. As such, it's important to Johnny that he's using his own deck. Playing Magic is an opportunity for Johnny to show off his creativity.

Timmy wants to experience something. Timmy plays Magic because he enjoys the feeling he gets when he plays. What that feeling is will vary from Timmy to Timmy, but what all Timmies have in common is that they enjoy the visceral experience of playing.

Spike is the competitive player. Spike plays to win. Spike enjoys winning. To accomplish this, Spike will play whatever the best deck is. Spike will copy decks off the Internet. Spike will borrow other players' decks. To Spike, the thrill of Magic is the adrenaline rush of competition. Spike enjoys the stimulation of outplaying the opponent and the glory of victory.

 

Oh, missed this:

To which i direct you to my first post:

In other words, I agree that high rarity should not be equivalent to more efficient, but it should be equivalent to Cool (flavorful, unique, intriguing tactically and strategically). If mixing a rich weave of unique effects ends up synergizing that is only cool

 

It will eventually(patches are kinda slow right now)but its should not be a priority.Themes and faction as a whole should be the focus.Vex is also a bad example,because her super cool ability is very overpowered and broken and most agree that it should be removed from the game.

 

@jsat thank you for your feedback, I'll have to go over it later tonight. I agree on a lot of LEG runes needing work and will probably include them in future patches when able.

I mean a lot of our LEG need some help ^_^.