They are actually quite formidable. The problem with Phase Spider is that it got hit by some 'blanket nerfs' because of a rampaging Ancestral Avenger a while back. He still hasn't recovered. Phase Spider was for all intents, and purposes a center piece of the Spider theme. A font runner, a tank, a shocktrooper, a support. Really what ever you needed him to be. With him being far less useful than he used to be, the bgs overall combat capabilities got hindered.
I should rephrase then. If it did all of that and it was needed - then shouldn't other runes be able to fill that slot too instead of focusing the whole bread and butter of a theme on one rune? And I agree that a font grabbing/contesting spider is really needed. Since i started playing spiders and even now I don't have (a) phase spider(s) - but anybody else praised them for what the could do and be an immense upgrade. Hell Tick was good enough for that job with absorb + life siphon. Now there seems to be a big hole. A little more on the main topic: As of right now I am testing a KF/UD splitt with tree spider ... and honestly that treespider works better then most UD spiders. Then again time slip + katipo spider is a really nice combo and you can guard her with reclaim/ tree folk blessung and memento. Sincerely
Ya they just die so easy and have no access to cleanse to all crowd control works wonders as well. They rlly need alot of work
I think it is my turn to rephrase. Phase Spider is not a 'center piece' per se. Over all Spiders rely on 3 things. Aggression, Positioning, Utility. It just so happens that Phase Spider was able to do all 3 to an extent. He did not excel at any one category. Most Spiders have mufti-purpose roles. It just so happens that we do not have one spider that could fill the roles in the exact same way he could. There are spiders that can do is roles; just not as effectively. He was primary used for his Teleport, and Vaporize. (Get on a font, and hold it long enough to have a manageable front-line coming to assist.) Early map control is mandatory for spiders. We can give a little as the time goes on, but if we do not have map control in the slightest. We are going to be zoned well before we can get our little baby spawn system up and running. It just so happens that he made that much easier to accomplish. I for one learned spiders from Agirgis1. I brought him into Stiched, and he brought me into Spiders. Neither of us has left the either since. His style was very aggressive. It did not utilize Protect the Nest at the time. We were very successful in our endeavors. Unfortunately this was long ago, and the game has changed since. Spiders were, and always have been weak to AoE effects. I would like to see a Mother Spider that supports with Weaken Spells, and has the ability to drop Spider Relics. This would make enabling a swarm style easier. My style seems to be a bit more successful than the wait on PtN to do its magic. I have been trying out the swarm style that Authyrtyr so loves, and have not has much success with it.
Conversely Agirgis tried to convince me of the aggressive style of playing spiders and I've had very little success with that approach. Further proof that in PoxNora there truly is no best way to play but that it all comes down to the player's style. All new players should take any guide they see for Pox with a grain of salt (unless it's Sep's UD guide). If someone suggests a new way of approaching a familiar BG or one you've played against once or twice even then I suggest keeping an open mind. To be honest my attrition spiders are the sort of weird new approach to spiders in this case. UD is pretty much the hyper aggressive faction.
Also besides the weakness of AoE spells (and a Weaken Spells unit would be nice) I find that a big weakness for this build of spiders is a really aggressive deck that gets in your face before you can setup. Something like "50 nora AoE 3-4 Non-arthropod champs take 8 physical damage and affected spaces become web for 6 turns". End game it can function as an AoE spell to finish off enemy champs and early game you can slow down the opponent. Maybe drop the damage not sure. This is the one of the reasons that I've pushed for a larger web sub-theme in spiders. There's a link to a thread where I've outlined most of my ideas in my sig.
I too play the aggressive style without PtB but with 2x Arachnablade instead. And it doesn't have to be a new spider tbh. Spinner's Greaves could be repurpossed to give the spider an AoE for either Web AoE 4 on end turn and/or Spell damage reduction. Heck, give me a "cleaning spider" with "cleanse athropod" (so it cannot be abused by other BGs) - heal 10, cleanse, +5max HP on CD5. Where is the cocooning spider types ... we are spiders but other BGS have cocoon (KF, SL) but not us anymore. Phase spider filled many needs of the deck - on top of the ability clipping that demished the diversity. Spiders were good because every spider filled 2(!) roles so they were versitial but squishy. Now they are 1 dimensional and still squish. I really love my FF UD spider deck ... but my KF/UD spider deck does everything a FF deck can, but with a heal, cleanse, better CC (hello reclaim) and i can even save 1 more AP to reach that little further ... time slip makes the katipo usable ... Kind of a shame. Sincerely
https://poxbase.com/deck/c5MCw=CuXcl_c8Kc3VcfXCuTc5ycfBcgyCqys3Vs8fs3os1FsOsAs8@s1lrArFr20e1UeNe2A Thats my bg. i have a few questions for the more informed on spiders. What do you think of helltick now that leap was nerfed? Should i throw in another bloodletter? they both heal(life siphon VS bloodball) but bloodletters stats are far better. also bloodletter has the nice anti stealth. on the other hand, helltick can latch on and has fire fead for 4 hp. he costs 3-4 more nora though D: If we compare helltick too flame web: Again i feel flame web is better too, flameweb has 3 armour and damage shield and pounce(so a damaging leap) also a different attack type. also with entangle that mimics the uses of latch on. he also costs 1-2 less nora. lastly compared to void spider he also feels outshined. void has better stats, range and tankability is about the same. also a better attack type again, void spider does cost 1 nora extra though. Next nightfall, he is squishy as all hell, and quite costly, his only redeeming factor is elusive and nightfall but ever since i got my 2 phase spiders, i dont feel myself getting desperate for magic damage(Especially to the nerfs to ghosts) So what do you guys think i should add? or remove. also are my spells ok? im still fiddling with orb of protection VS obelisk VS breath of ashe should i remove retribution/ sac for another mandate or boomerang? Also phase spider buffs HYPE
Since the latest updates, I now run two arachnablades on my Ireguards with a Beastmaster for the foment, and a Mark of Sheoul. The Phase Spider is back to being an excellent font contender at 66 Nora. It's not a spider deck, as the only spider is the Phase Spider, but with ireguard's 2/2/5 attack chains, arachnablades and +12 HP, it often becomes quite spidery!
Oh wow, totally missed that Beastmaster had foment. I'll update the guide. That's definitely a good idea to run
Updated the guide with beastcaller. On an initial review Soulcrawler and Nightfall Spider both fall under 40 base HP as well as the spiderlings.
Well fairys are getting a buff with the new Patch maybe UD will get some spider buffs and we can blownthisnt b read up again! I really miss spiders but they are in the same place as before really.... though if anyone is having any success at the higher levels lemme see whatcha got I want spider brain storming lol
Ok so I am no expert on spiders but I play a bit of UD. I would lose... Price of victory Mandate from Sheoul Protect the nest Mind slicer obelisk. And take... A second arachnablade Demolish Shatter Fading recollection. In fact, if you don't mind a couple of non spiders, I would drop a couple of spiders, take two Ireguards and give them the arachnablades. Give them rend 1 and multi attack 3 for a 2/2/5 chain. I would then lose superiority for fire blast. I would also take a Nefari bodyguard by losing something else. Probably drop spinners greaves. K'lzik needs a demon shield, not greaves. But whatever you do has to fit your own style. Me? I'm captain aggressive!
I'd say drop Price for a second Protect the Nest and drop Frenzy for a second Superiority or a Beastcaller. Also, @Fentum, Spinner's Greaves isn't a Kl'zik specific equip anymore. Now it targets Arthropods for it's extra effect.
but POV is so nice on the big maps where shrine rush is no concern, gives all of your 5-10 odd spiderlings an extra 5 hp. and POV+Frenzy for suprize 100+ damage from a broodmother or k'lzick if they dont expect it
Looks interesting. The only time I ever run PoV is in a tricksy UD SL deck which kills shrines from full HP by laying eggs, hatching them, then generating ap in one big turn. Ember wasps are key.
arachna blade on phase spider is pretty fun, with it teleporting around with coming in and out of incorp. I put spinner's greaves on a bloodletter for defence and weave webbing the hell of of the area to make threasholds. The rest of the spiders should also have weabe web if possible, and have a weave out for mobility as well as CnC up for maximum troll
